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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437376

  • Mean Gene
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fordham96 post=437363 wrote: Remember people talked about what the difference was with Rutgers and SJU last year.  Not much maybe RU's win over Illinois was a bit better than SJU win over Nova.  But the ultimate difference was Rutgers beat Syracuse in a non-conference game.

UCONN beat USC in a non-conference game.

BIG difference from SJU's best non conference win which was probably Boston College.


Agreed Fordham, the only way for us to make sure we get in the tournament with this weak schedule is to win all of our OOC games beating Kansas and Indiana or winning the Big East Tournament Championship. If we don’t do either of those things our weak SOS will come back to haunt us. Like you said, we won 10 Big East games last year and it did nothing for us.
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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437378

  • mm52
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would it matter if our cupcakes wind up being better than other major schools' cupcakes?  I think a quad 4 victory against a team with a net in the 200s or 300s is treated the same

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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437379

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Mean Gene post=437376 wrote:

fordham96 post=437363 wrote: Remember people talked about what the difference was with Rutgers and SJU last year.  Not much maybe RU's win over Illinois was a bit better than SJU win over Nova.  But the ultimate difference was Rutgers beat Syracuse in a non-conference game.

UCONN beat USC in a non-conference game.

BIG difference from SJU's best non conference win which was probably Boston College.


Agreed Fordham, the only way for us to make sure we get in the tournament with this weak schedule is to win all of our OOC games beating Kansas and Indiana or winning the Big East Tournament Championship. If we don’t do either of those things our weak SOS will come back to haunt us. Like you said, we won 10 Big East games last year and it did nothing for us.

 


So you don't think that going, say, 10-1 in non-conference play with a loss to what will be a top-5 Kansas team and 11-9 in the conference for an overall record of 21-10 and finishing in 4th place in the regular season would make SJU an NCAA team? 

Interesting, but I think wrong.

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Last edit: by lawmanfan. Reason: fixed math error

2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437382

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If we go 10-1 in OOC, including a road win against Indiana and losing only to Kansas, and finish 12-8 in the Big East (22-9 overall), the only way we don't get to dance is if the Big East gets destroyed in its OOC games.  Having said that, I'd like to see one more top 60 OOC opponent but schedule appears set. 
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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437383

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fordham96 post=437353 wrote: I mean UCONN is playing in Atlantis.  Field is LOADED.  Now I don't understand the argument that SJU should be good this year so I don't mind playing a softer schedule?  What? So UCONN after getting back to the NCAA Tourney for the first time in years last year and generally projected to be the 2nd best team after Nova in the BE is a sucker for playing in such a high level tourney? Or is that how a big time basketball program is supposed to act like?

Remember how well that worked out in Mullin's last year?  That 12-0 non-conference did not help much as they barely snuck in as the last team in the field.  And that is because the non-conference schedule that year was weak even though SJU was projected to have it's best team up to that point under Mullin.  

The last thing I will say is this is SJU.  Why would they ever shy away from a difficult schedule even if the team was projected to be bad.  No look I have harped on this enough.  I will just say going forward SJU needs to be in a top tier pre-season tourney just about every year.

Celebrating its tenth year of elite collegiate tournament play, the 2021 Bad Boy Mowers Battle 4 Atlantis will include Arizona State, Auburn, Loyola Chicago, Michigan State, Syracuse, Connecticut, Virginia Commonwealth, and Baylor. 
 

Honest question.  Do you think STJ turned down a major exempt tourney invite so they could play Pitt in the Gotham Classic, or are they playing Pitt in the Gotham Classic because they didn't garner an invite to any of the major exempt tourneys?  I don't know the answer but I would hope they it's not the former even if they did it for the Champagnie brothers, especially given the way it worked out.

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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437384

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I honestly don't know the answer to that it appears to be a conscious choice but this is 2 years in a row not playing in a major exempt tourney.  I look at Lavin's last 4 years and Mullin's first year.  Lavin's first year SJU was in the Great Alaska Shootout which by then was a second rate tourney and that decision was made by previous coaching staff.

Second year Pre-Season NIT.  3rd year, Charleston Classic.  4th year Barclay's Center Tourney, also played a top 10 Wisconsin team opening game in the Dakota's.  5th year Pre-season NIT where they beat Minnesota and lost to Gonzaga.  Mullin's 1st year they were in Maui.

I don't care how good or bad SJU is predicted to be I don't see the issue with being in one of these Tourney's.  

austour post=437383

fordham96 post=437353 wrote:

Honest question.  Do you think STJ turned down a major exempt tourney invite so they could play Pitt in the Gotham Classic, or are they playing Pitt in the Gotham Classic because they didn't garner an invite to any of the major exempt tourneys?  I don't know the answer but I would hope they it's not the former even if they did it for the Champagnie brothers, especially given the way it worked out.
 

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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437385

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Remember even under that scenario they cannot afford any slip ups, meaning no losses to outside top 100 teams which is no guarantee.  As evidenced by the fact last year they were 1 or 2 plays away from losing to BOTH St. Peter's  and Rider.  No room for error.  And SJU won both games and STILL did not get in.  If they had lost either let alone both it would have pushed them farther away.

My guess is 12-8 and beating Indiana while losing to Kansas would be enough but do we want them to just sneak in too?  And the IU game they will almost certainly be an underdog.  It would also depend on who they beat in the 12 league wins, would need to split at least against UCONN and Nova and maybe SHU and Xavier would need to be combined with a weak non-conference especially if they lose BOTH KU and IU games.  

lawmanfan post=437379

Mean Gene post=437376 wrote: fordham96 post=437363
Remember people talked about what the difference was with Rutgers and SJU last year.  Not much maybe RU's win over Illinois was a bit better than SJU win over Nova.  But the ultimate difference was Rutgers beat Syracuse in a non-conference game.

UCONN beat USC in a non-conference game.

BIG difference from SJU's best non conference win which was probably Boston College.


So you don't think that going, say, 10-1 in non-conference play with a loss to what will be a top-5 Kansas team and 11-9 in the conference for an overall record of 21-10 and finishing in 4th place in the regular season would make SJU an NCAA team? 

Interesting, but I think wrong.
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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437387

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fordham96 post=437385 wrote: Remember even under that scenario they cannot afford any slip ups, meaning no losses to outside top 100 teams which is no guarantee.  As evidenced by the fact last year they were 1 or 2 plays away from losing to BOTH St. Peter's  and Rider.  No room for error.  And SJU won both games and STILL did not get in.  If they had lost either let alone both it would have pushed them farther away.

My guess is 12-8 and beating Indiana while losing to Kansas would be enough but do we want them to just sneak in too?  And the IU game they will almost certainly be an underdog.  It would also depend on who they beat in the 12 league wins, would need to split at least against UCONN and Nova and maybe SHU and Xavier would need to be combined with a weak non-conference especially if they lose BOTH KU and IU games.  

lawmanfan post=437379

Mean Gene post=437376 wrote: fordham96 post=437363
Remember people talked about what the difference was with Rutgers and SJU last year.  Not much maybe RU's win over Illinois was a bit better than SJU win over Nova.  But the ultimate difference was Rutgers beat Syracuse in a non-conference game.

UCONN beat USC in a non-conference game.

BIG difference from SJU's best non conference win which was probably Boston College.


So you don't think that going, say, 10-1 in non-conference play with a loss to what will be a top-5 Kansas team and 11-9 in the conference for an overall record of 21-10 and finishing in 4th place in the regular season would make SJU an NCAA team? 

Interesting, but I think wrong.
 


I agree with almost everything you've said on this thread including this.  The problem with the scenario I posed is that (a) there is little room for error; and (b) it doesn't do much for their seeding.  Of course both of those could be affected some by what they do in the BET but there's no sense in trying to figure that out in July.

It's mostly a case of that - sight unseen on this team - I am pessimistic about their chances in an early-season game against a good team.  I could be wrong (and I hope I am) - the talent level might be high enough or they could put it together quickly enough that they will be highly competitive out of the gate.

But if they aren't, I'm just not sure it's wise to trade a probable W against a Quad 3 or 4 team for a probable L against a Quad 1 team.  Not dogmatic about it, and I completely respect the contrary opinions, just my own lean on it.

I'd feel differently if we were talking about an OOC Quad 1 or 2 game in February instead of Nov/Dec.  IMHO they should jump at the chance to schedule that if they can.  And if we were talking about playing a bottom-third Big 10 or Big 12 team or whatever in addition to Indiana early in the season, that would be fine.

But I don't think the staff's scheduling decision (as it stands at the moment) is crazy.
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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437404

  • Room112
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Just to clarify because I believe it was brought up here in the past. The coaching staff is NOT in charge of scheduling. It's the job of the AD correct?

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2021-2022 Schedule 2 months 2 weeks ago #437434

  • BrooklynRed
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Heck--the discussion is moot--we win the BET and automatically get in.  Our depth in 3 games in 3 days will carry us far.  (how's that for "rose colored glasses").  
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