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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393112

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Look moose has his opinion and shouldn’t be cutely criticized Think we are all waiting to close on a few of these many recruits we have offered

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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393114

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usguard wrote: Look moose has his opinion and shouldn’t be cutely criticized Think we are all waiting to close on a few of these many recruits we have offered


What exactly is the divide on this issue? If we're being honest, I suspect nearly all of us would give the following answers to the questions below: Yes, No, Yes, Yes, Yes.

I think the larger issue is that some posters are inherently more optimistic and patient than others. And those who are the "glass half full" type don't like reading the constant negativity from those who don't share their rosy disposition, particularly given the limited time that CMA has been at the helm and the circumstances under which he was hired. Fair enough, but we all share the same common goal of desperately wanting this program to regain it's former glory. Some of us just have difficulty remaining optimistic.


-Are you frustrated watching us whiff on highly-rated high school recruits?
- Do you have confidence that we will sign a highly-rated high school recruit in the near future?
-Do we need to regularly sign a few four star kids to get to where we want to be?
- Presently, is it inherently difficult to attract top talent to join our program?
- Is the jury out on whether CMA will be successful here?

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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393115

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When it comes to sports fans, the jury is always out not matter what happened previously.
What have you done for me lately is the standard against which 95% of the coaches are measured.
The great ones are allowed one or two years of mediocre performance before the fans decide their coach lapsed into a washed up has been, who hasn't kept up with the new style, the new technology, the inducements or whatever. So, if we get into the NCAA this year, and land a four star, the jury will go on recess....for one year. But no excuses the following season if the recruiting or W-L record slips. That's just life in the coaching box, especially in NY. Just ask any of G. Steinbrenner's stable of managers.
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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393127

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Windy City Johnny Fan wrote:

Paultzman wrote:

Windy City Johnny Fan wrote:

Paultzman wrote: Another tough get obviously
sidelinesports.report/2020/07/14/intervi...cruit-wesley-cardet/


Why is every recruit for us a tough get?

Hi Moose!


Because we may not be up to par with schools chasing him longer. Clear enough?


I'm still a bit hazy, to be honest. If that's the case, why don't we just focus on recruits with whom we are "up to par" and have chased for a competitive time period?

Tremendous suggestion

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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393131

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Paultzman wrote:

Windy City Johnny Fan wrote:

Paultzman wrote:

Windy City Johnny Fan wrote:

Paultzman wrote: Another tough get obviously
sidelinesports.report/2020/07/14/intervi...cruit-wesley-cardet/


Why is every recruit for us a tough get?

Hi Moose!


Because we may not be up to par with schools chasing him longer. Clear enough?


I'm still a bit hazy, to be honest. If that's the case, why don't we just focus on recruits with whom we are "up to par" and have chased for a competitive time period?

Tremendous suggestion


Not sure what I said that was offensive to you. My initial comment was simply why are all of the recruits we are after long shots? Your response to me ("Clear enough?") was rude, period. I know this is your own personal website and i'm just a spectator but everyone should be treated respectfully.

Anyway, it seems to me that we have a terrific staff and an outstanding head coach with a strong track record (who by all accounts is an even better man than he is a head coach) and play in the basketball capital of the world in a fantastic conference. If we can't sell that, then in my opinion we aren't delivering the message properly.

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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393144

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usguard wrote: Look moose has his opinion and shouldn’t be cutely criticized Think we are all waiting to close on a few of these many recruits we have offered


Uh thanks?
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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393149

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I know it's in vogue to rip on posters who are constantly negative like usguard, and zaun, but I find myself kind of agreeing with them.

Seems to me if we miss out on Jordan Riley, which could happen given the increased competition over the past few months, that we could end up with a 2021 class where our best player could be Drissa Traore or some JUCO/transfer. Traore isn't a bad player, but as a top player in CMA's first real recruiting class that would be a huge disappointment. Basically almost every other high caliber player we are recruiting is a "long shot."

I know SJU may not be the most attractive place to sell to a high caliber recruit, but that didn't stop Lavin or even Mullin or Norm Roberts from bringing in very nice first classes with multiple 4 star recruits.

Norm's 2005 class: :
Anthony Mason Jr. (4 Star)
Ricky Torres (4 Star)
Aaron Spears (2 Star)
Tomas Jasiulonas (2 Star)

Lavin's 2011 Class:
Dom Pointer (4 Star)
Mo Harkless (4 star)
Amir Garrett (4 Star)
D'Angelo Harrison (4 Star)
Phil Greene (3 Star)

Mullin 2016 Class:
Shamorie Ponds (4 Star)
Richard Fraudenberg (4 Star)
Bashir Ahmed (4 Star)


I would be elated if CMA could produce something similar, but at the moment unless a lot changes that seems very unlikely.

Also... why did we get rid of Steve Lavin again? I was against it at the time, and in retrospect seems like an awful move. The guy could recruit, he cared immensely about the program and his players, and he was as successful as any coach we've had in the past 20 years. He had his drawbacks too, but I would trade CMA for him any day of the week if it were possible. No offense to CMA.

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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393151

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PharmDJohnnie11 wrote: I know it's in vogue to rip on posters who are constantly negative like usguard, and zaun, but I find myself kind of agreeing with them.

Seems to me if we miss out on Jordan Riley, which could happen given the increased competition over the past few months, that we could end up with a 2021 class where our best player could be Drissa Traore or some JUCO/transfer. Traore isn't a bad player, but as a top player in CMA's first real recruiting class that would be a huge disappointment. Basically almost every other high caliber player we are recruiting is a "long shot."

I know SJU may not be the most attractive place to sell to a high caliber recruit, but that didn't stop Lavin or even Mullin or Norm Roberts from bringing in very nice first classes with multiple 4 star recruits.

Norm's 2005 class: :
Anthony Mason Jr. (4 Star)
Ricky Torres (4 Star)
Aaron Spears (2 Star)
Tomas Jasiulonas (2 Star)

Lavin's 2011 Class:
Dom Pointer (4 Star)
Mo Harkless (4 star)
Amir Garrett (4 Star)
D'Angelo Harrison (4 Star)
Phil Greene (3 Star)

Mullin 2016 Class:
Shamorie Ponds (4 Star)
Richard Fraudenberg (4 Star)
Bashir Ahmed (4 Star)


I would be elated if CMA could produce something similar, but at the moment unless a lot changes that seems very unlikely.

Also... why did we get rid of Steve Lavin again? I was against it at the time, and in retrospect seems like an awful move. The guy could recruit, he cared immensely about the program and his players, and he was as successful as any coach we've had in the past 20 years. He had his drawbacks too, but I would trade CMA for him any day of the week if it were possible. No offense to CMA.


And what happens if he gets Riley, Applewhite and Johnson?

Do we continue to shit on him because many sites have all three of those guys as 3 stars?

Also, are we really putting that mullin 2016 class on a pedestal?

Yea we all love Ponds but... Freudenberg never did anything for St. John’s. Ahmed was a JUCO not a 4 star. If you wanna give mullin credit for getting him then where’s CMA’s credit for getting Vince Cole considering their JUCO numbers are extremely similar except Cole is 10% better from the 3pt line...

You bring up these names before our guys like Posh and Cole even get a chance to prove themselves. What happens if they are great players? Do their baskets only count 1 point instead of 2 because they weren’t rated higher in recruiting rankings? I really don’t understand this argument...

If you want to critique the job CMA is doing on the recruiting trail let’s actually make sure the guys he gets aren’t good then. Because last I checked Champagnie showed a massive amount of potential. Dunn had a solid year he can build on.

What we are doing here is the equivalent of people trying to say a team had a good or bad NFL draft the day after the draft ends. We literally won’t know if it’s good or not until the players play. Recruiting rankings don’t guarantee anything.

If Moore, Cole, Posh, Wusu etc come in and aren’t good players and CMA hasn’t signed anyone of note for 2021, then maybe we can have a serious discussion about recruiting but as of now JC was outstanding and big East media guys are saying he has star potential, so sorry but I’m not exactly shaking in my boots here, I believe CMA can and will continue to get players and develop them for his style. And we will win games.
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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393152

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Jack Williams wrote:

PharmDJohnnie11 wrote: I know it's in vogue to rip on posters who are constantly negative like usguard, and zaun, but I find myself kind of agreeing with them.

Seems to me if we miss out on Jordan Riley, which could happen given the increased competition over the past few months, that we could end up with a 2021 class where our best player could be Drissa Traore or some JUCO/transfer. Traore isn't a bad player, but as a top player in CMA's first real recruiting class that would be a huge disappointment. Basically almost every other high caliber player we are recruiting is a "long shot."

I know SJU may not be the most attractive place to sell to a high caliber recruit, but that didn't stop Lavin or even Mullin or Norm Roberts from bringing in very nice first classes with multiple 4 star recruits.

Norm's 2005 class: :
Anthony Mason Jr. (4 Star)
Ricky Torres (4 Star)
Aaron Spears (2 Star)
Tomas Jasiulonas (2 Star)

Lavin's 2011 Class:
Dom Pointer (4 Star)
Mo Harkless (4 star)
Amir Garrett (4 Star)
D'Angelo Harrison (4 Star)
Phil Greene (3 Star)

Mullin 2016 Class:
Shamorie Ponds (4 Star)
Richard Fraudenberg (4 Star)
Bashir Ahmed (4 Star)


I would be elated if CMA could produce something similar, but at the moment unless a lot changes that seems very unlikely.

Also... why did we get rid of Steve Lavin again? I was against it at the time, and in retrospect seems like an awful move. The guy could recruit, he cared immensely about the program and his players, and he was as successful as any coach we've had in the past 20 years. He had his drawbacks too, but I would trade CMA for him any day of the week if it were possible. No offense to CMA.


And what happens if he gets Riley, Applewhite and Johnson?

Do we continue to shit on him because many sites have all three of those guys as 3 stars?

Also, are we really putting that mullin 2016 class on a pedestal?

Yea we all love Ponds but... Freudenberg never did anything for St. John’s. Ahmed was a JUCO not a 4 star. If you wanna give mullin credit for getting him then where’s CMA’s credit for getting Vince Cole considering their JUCO numbers are extremely similar except Cole is 10% better from the 3pt line...

You bring up these names before our guys like Posh and Cole even get a chance to prove themselves. What happens if they are great players? Do their baskets only count 1 point instead of 2 because they weren’t rated higher in recruiting rankings? I really don’t understand this argument...

If you want to critique the job CMA is doing on the recruiting trail let’s actually make sure the guys he gets aren’t good then. Because last I checked Champagnie showed a massive amount of potential. Dunn had a solid year he can build on.

What we are doing here is the equivalent of people trying to say a team had a good or bad NFL draft the day after the draft ends. We literally won’t know if it’s good or not until the players play. Recruiting rankings don’t guarantee anything.

If Moore, Cole, Posh, Wusu etc come in and aren’t good players and CMA hasn’t signed anyone of note for 2021, then maybe we can have a serious discussion about recruiting but as of now JC was outstanding and big East media guys are saying he has star potential, so sorry but I’m not exactly shaking in my boots here, I believe CMA can and will continue to get players and develop them for his style. And we will win games.


I honestly hope you're right. I'm not shitting on him, I'm just saying this 2021 class which should be a major stepping stone class for him is looking pretty bleak right now. I would like to land a class of Riley, Applewhite and Johnson. Do I think we will get all three? Probably not, but if that's the 2021 class I'd consider that a success.

If Posh, Cole, Moore and Wusu all become good players for us then kudos to CMA. We will see. I didn't even want to include this past class because it was on such short notice. If it turns out to be a good class then I'd be thrilled, but I wouldn't kill him if it turns out badly because he barley had any time to recruit for the 2020 class.

Champagnie was a great find, but can he consistently find diamonds in the rough like that? If he can that would be great, but I don't think any coach can do that on a consistent basis.

Out of all the coaches I mentioned in my last post I would rank CMA in terms of in-game coaching, and player development first amongst them. My hope is that he has success with these "lower" ranked players, and they help put the program in a better light with recruits, and that success will lead to landing more highly ranked recruits. I don't think you can win consistently in this conference without landing your fair share of 4 star recruits.

I'm not ready to give up on CMA by any means. I'm rooting for him. I'm just concerned. Are we not allowed to be concerned or do we have to blindly follow and praise our coach no matter what he does?

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Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc. 3 months 1 week ago #393153

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PharmDJohnnie11 wrote:

Jack Williams wrote:

PharmDJohnnie11 wrote: I know it's in vogue to rip on posters who are constantly negative like usguard, and zaun, but I find myself kind of agreeing with them.

Seems to me if we miss out on Jordan Riley, which could happen given the increased competition over the past few months, that we could end up with a 2021 class where our best player could be Drissa Traore or some JUCO/transfer. Traore isn't a bad player, but as a top player in CMA's first real recruiting class that would be a huge disappointment. Basically almost every other high caliber player we are recruiting is a "long shot."

I know SJU may not be the most attractive place to sell to a high caliber recruit, but that didn't stop Lavin or even Mullin or Norm Roberts from bringing in very nice first classes with multiple 4 star recruits.

Norm's 2005 class: :
Anthony Mason Jr. (4 Star)
Ricky Torres (4 Star)
Aaron Spears (2 Star)
Tomas Jasiulonas (2 Star)

Lavin's 2011 Class:
Dom Pointer (4 Star)
Mo Harkless (4 star)
Amir Garrett (4 Star)
D'Angelo Harrison (4 Star)
Phil Greene (3 Star)

Mullin 2016 Class:
Shamorie Ponds (4 Star)
Richard Fraudenberg (4 Star)
Bashir Ahmed (4 Star)


I would be elated if CMA could produce something similar, but at the moment unless a lot changes that seems very unlikely.

Also... why did we get rid of Steve Lavin again? I was against it at the time, and in retrospect seems like an awful move. The guy could recruit, he cared immensely about the program and his players, and he was as successful as any coach we've had in the past 20 years. He had his drawbacks too, but I would trade CMA for him any day of the week if it were possible. No offense to CMA.


And what happens if he gets Riley, Applewhite and Johnson?

Do we continue to shit on him because many sites have all three of those guys as 3 stars?

Also, are we really putting that mullin 2016 class on a pedestal?

Yea we all love Ponds but... Freudenberg never did anything for St. John’s. Ahmed was a JUCO not a 4 star. If you wanna give mullin credit for getting him then where’s CMA’s credit for getting Vince Cole considering their JUCO numbers are extremely similar except Cole is 10% better from the 3pt line...

You bring up these names before our guys like Posh and Cole even get a chance to prove themselves. What happens if they are great players? Do their baskets only count 1 point instead of 2 because they weren’t rated higher in recruiting rankings? I really don’t understand this argument...

If you want to critique the job CMA is doing on the recruiting trail let’s actually make sure the guys he gets aren’t good then. Because last I checked Champagnie showed a massive amount of potential. Dunn had a solid year he can build on.

What we are doing here is the equivalent of people trying to say a team had a good or bad NFL draft the day after the draft ends. We literally won’t know if it’s good or not until the players play. Recruiting rankings don’t guarantee anything.

If Moore, Cole, Posh, Wusu etc come in and aren’t good players and CMA hasn’t signed anyone of note for 2021, then maybe we can have a serious discussion about recruiting but as of now JC was outstanding and big East media guys are saying he has star potential, so sorry but I’m not exactly shaking in my boots here, I believe CMA can and will continue to get players and develop them for his style. And we will win games.


I honestly hope you're right. I'm not shitting on him, I'm just saying this 2021 class which should be a major stepping stone class for him is looking pretty bleak right now. I would like to land a class of Riley, Applewhite and Johnson. Do I think we will get all three? Probably not, but if that's the 2021 class I'd consider that a success.

If Posh, Cole, Moore and Wusu all become good players for us then kudos to CMA. We will see. I didn't even want to include this past class because it was on such short notice. If it turns out to be a good class then I'd be thrilled, but I wouldn't kill him if it turns out badly because he barley had any time to recruit for the 2020 class.

Champagnie was a great find, but can he consistently find diamonds in the rough like that? If he can that would be great, but I don't think any coach can do that on a consistent basis.

Out of all the coaches I mentioned in my last post I would rank CMA in terms of in-game coaching, and player development first amongst them. My hope is that he has success with these "lower" ranked players, and they help put the program in a better light with recruits, and that success will lead to landing more highly ranked recruits. I don't think you can win consistently in this conference without landing your fair share of 4 star recruits.

I'm not ready to give up on CMA by any means. I'm rooting for him. I'm just concerned. Are we not allowed to be concerned or do we have to blindly follow and praise our coach no matter what he does?


No one is saying you have to blindly praise the coach. Don’t start that

But at the same time, some consistency and fairness would keep me from showing up ready to debate.

Wanting four stars is fine by me, I really don’t care. If that’s what floats your boat, have at it.

But I do think there’s a caveat with the four star thing. It doesn’t dictate whether CMA is failing or not on the recruiting trail. RESULTS will dictate that. Wins and losses. That’s my main point I feel the need to add in when it comes to these discussions.

If we have a team with JC, Greg, Earlington, Posh, Cole, Moore, Wusu, etc. and we have a great season, then what?

This is why I said that thing about the NFL draft. The whole discussion is honestly moot until these players actually play and we see it. I know we are all bored and need things to talk about. But come on.

Dismissing his 2020 class because its just a bunch of 3 stars and JUCOs, before they get to play, and then coupling that with constant and excessive complaints (not just you) about a 2021 class that he still has plenty of time to put together... it’s just not fair to me. It’s not.

The 2020 class isn’t bad because of rankings. It’s also not good just because we want it to be. We have to actually wait and see. And that’s my problem with this whole thing. A lot of us on here seem eager to get the pitchforks and storm Carnesseca Arena and I just think the whole thing is extremely premature

That’s just me
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