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TOPIC: (POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM

(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370314

  • Delaware
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Finally watched the game this morning although I inadvertently saw the result about 10 PM last night. Really tough loss after battling back and getting the lead. Shouldn't lose games where you have a 5 point lead at Home with 3 minutes to go. Really hate to give up home losses.
Champ and Roberts scored early, then nothing. Really surprised given the way they have been playing.
The first charge on LJ was BS. But he has to be better over the course of a game avoiding fouls like that.
We always seem to be on the short end of foul calls. How did Butler only have 3 fouls in the 1st half? Unbelievable.
If we could just hit a few open shots now and then. Its amazing how year after year we don't have knock down shooters, but our opponents do!
Thought Sears' post defense in the 1st half was weak, and that Steer could lend some support. Have to say that Sears' play in the 2nd half was very good; knows his role.
What is up with Steere? How does he not get in a game in the 1st half when were down so much, just to mix things up? Maybe he keeps Nze off the boards a bit more than Sears.
10 points out of our starters? Ugh. Need Heron back Sunday.
We were at 14-14 at the 7 minutes mark of the 1st half when it all fell apart, very quickly.
In the game early without LJ. Why risk him at all in the 1st half?
Of course Baldwin finds his stroke against us. Tucker too in the 2nd half.
Just awful rebounding all game. Scary reminder of last year.
Great effort in the 2nd half!
Williams had a big night.
Turns out we didn't ultimately need LJ to win this game. Needed a few breaks or a few more shots to go in.
I don't like to justify losses. When you have a chance late to get one, you have to win, especially at home.
Happy New Year everyone.
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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370315

  • CMA TIME
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Delaware wrote: Finally watched the game this morning although I inadvertently saw the result about 10 PM last night. Really tough loss after battling back and getting the lead. Shouldn't lose games where you have a 5 point lead at Home with 3 minutes to go. Really hate to give up home losses.
Champ and Roberts scored early, then nothing. Really surprised given the way they have been playing.
The first charge on LJ was BS. But he has to be better over the course of a game avoiding fouls like that.
We always seem to be on the short end of foul calls. How did Butler only have 3 fouls in the 1st half? Unbelievable.
If we could just hit a few open shots now and then. Its amazing how year after year we don't have knock down shooters, but our opponents do!
Thought Sears' post defense in the 1st half was weak, and that Steer could lend some support. Have to say that Sears' play in the 2nd half was very good; knows his role.
What is up with Steere? How does he not get in a game in the 1st half when were down so much, just to mix things up? Maybe he keeps Nze off the boards a bit more than Sears.
10 points out of our starters? Ugh. Need Heron back Sunday.
We were at 14-14 at the 7 minutes mark of the 1st half when it all fell apart, very quickly.
In the game early without LJ. Why risk him at all in the 1st half?
Of course Baldwin finds his stroke against us. Tucker too in the 2nd half.
Just awful rebounding all game. Scary reminder of last year.
Great effort in the 2nd half!
Williams had a big night.
Turns out we didn't ultimately need LJ to win this game. Needed a few breaks or a few more shots to go in.
I don't like to justify losses. When you have a chance late to get one, you have to win, especially at home.
Happy New Year everyone.


Yes, it was a gutsy effort to come back from 23, but they had a 5pnt lead, you gotta finish the comeback.
Whatever cma said to them to get their butts in gear needs to be said before games because that really lit a fire under their asses. They need that intensity for 40minutes not 20, you can't go down 23 and expect to claw back and win.

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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370318

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Now visions of winning 4/games in BE could that be a possibity we just do not shoot the ball as well as the rest of the BE really like coach but recruiting players that are shooter is their job

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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370319

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SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SJU2000alum15 wrote: I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.


I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.


Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.

. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .


I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.

. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .


I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.

. Dunn is a one dimensional player that is exciting to watch but , he should never shoot the ball . He goes to the hoop strong but , can’t shoot a lick . And , he isn’t a Playmaker who makes his teammates better . But , he contributes when he plays his game . Not try to be a long range shooter .,


Nobody on this team can shoot a lick. I think it's time that we, as a fanbase, come to grips with that. It's something we can't do, not something we're not doing. We could improve a little bit, but I've always felt that great shooters are born with that ability.

Dunn is more of a scoring guard, then a point (Larry Brown would hate him, but that just makes me like Dunn more), but until tonight, Rutherford was too much in the other direction, IMO. I dread him taking the outside shot, and feel that he's open for a reason. We were almost playing 4-on-5 offensively, while he was out there. Hopefully, tonight was a breakthrough, but I'm skeptical.


I'm sorry but I could not disagree more with your viewpoint on shooters. Shooting ability is NOT something that you are just born with. If you ask any of the great shooters in the history of the game how they became great, they all are going to tell you the same thing: Practice and repetition. Chris Mullin didn't just wake up one day as a great shooter, or wasn't just born as a great shooter. He worked at it. Like many others, he was known to be a gym rat, and was always in the gym working on his game.

And as far as our team this year goes, unfortunately shooting is something that is typically developed/improved in the offseason, not during the season. So while we may be as good as we are going to be this year, that doesn't mean that the players cannot improve their shooting for future seasons.

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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370320

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Eric Williamson wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SJU2000alum15 wrote: I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.


I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.


Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.

. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .


I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.

. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .


I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.

. Dunn is a one dimensional player that is exciting to watch but , he should never shoot the ball . He goes to the hoop strong but , can’t shoot a lick . And , he isn’t a Playmaker who makes his teammates better . But , he contributes when he plays his game . Not try to be a long range shooter .,


Nobody on this team can shoot a lick. I think it's time that we, as a fanbase, come to grips with that. It's something we can't do, not something we're not doing. We could improve a little bit, but I've always felt that great shooters are born with that ability.

Dunn is more of a scoring guard, then a point (Larry Brown would hate him, but that just makes me like Dunn more), but until tonight, Rutherford was too much in the other direction, IMO. I dread him taking the outside shot, and feel that he's open for a reason. We were almost playing 4-on-5 offensively, while he was out there. Hopefully, tonight was a breakthrough, but I'm skeptical.


I'm sorry but I could not disagree more with your viewpoint on shooters. Shooting ability is NOT something that you are just born with. If you ask any of the great shooters in the history of the game how they became great, they all are going to tell you the same thing: Practice and repetition. Chris Mullin didn't just wake up one day as a great shooter, or wasn't just born as a great shooter. He worked at it. Like many others, he was known to be a gym rat, and was always in the gym working on his game.

And as far as our team this year goes, unfortunately shooting is something that is typically developed/improved in the offseason, not during the season. So while we may be as good as we are going to be this year, that doesn't mean that the players cannot improve their shooting for future seasons.


Point being Chris Mullin was a natural shooter before he came to sju.

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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370321

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If I had to pick one word to describe this team, I'd pick resilient. When we were down by 20+ points, this team fought their arses off to try to get back into the game. Previous teams probably would have lost by 30.

A few thoughts:

1. While I love LJ, I don't have a problem with not putting him back in. Coach was playing the hot hand - the group that got us back in the game. Sometimes a coach has to play his gut.
2. We need LJ on the court as much as possible, especially with Heron out. LJ fouls too much and often far away from the basket. He tends to reach rather than move his feet. This needs to get corrected ASAP. We need him to play as many minutes as possible.
3. Caraher and Dunn can hit treys when they just catch and shoot but neither can hit one off the dribble. They shouldn't take them until they develop the skill
4. I love Earlington's hustle and work inside but he can't shoot from the outside. The foul line should be his limit.
5. I want to see more of Williams. He can be a stat sheet filler (points, rebounds, assists, steals).

Overall, while disappointed with the loss, I was very pleased with the effort. We stood toe to toe with the 11th ranked team in the nation. If we continue to play with this level of intensity and effort, we'll be fine.

Happy New Year to all and to all, a good night.
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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370322

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The play that sums up Dunn happened earlier in the second half, he had the ball on the break, three on one, the defender focused solely on him, should have been an pass across for an easy two but he took it himself. He scored the basket, but it was the 100% the wrong play.

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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370323

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Best thing about the game last night was the comeback happened without LJ and Heron. Bodes well for the rest of the season.
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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370324

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Eric Williamson wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SJU2000alum15 wrote: I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.


I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.


Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.

. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .


I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.

. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .


I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.

. Dunn is a one dimensional player that is exciting to watch but , he should never shoot the ball . He goes to the hoop strong but , can’t shoot a lick . And , he isn’t a Playmaker who makes his teammates better . But , he contributes when he plays his game . Not try to be a long range shooter .,


Nobody on this team can shoot a lick. I think it's time that we, as a fanbase, come to grips with that. It's something we can't do, not something we're not doing. We could improve a little bit, but I've always felt that great shooters are born with that ability.

Dunn is more of a scoring guard, then a point (Larry Brown would hate him, but that just makes me like Dunn more), but until tonight, Rutherford was too much in the other direction, IMO. I dread him taking the outside shot, and feel that he's open for a reason. We were almost playing 4-on-5 offensively, while he was out there. Hopefully, tonight was a breakthrough, but I'm skeptical.


I'm sorry but I could not disagree more with your viewpoint on shooters. Shooting ability is NOT something that you are just born with. If you ask any of the great shooters in the history of the game how they became great, they all are going to tell you the same thing: Practice and repetition. Chris Mullin didn't just wake up one day as a great shooter, or wasn't just born as a great shooter. He worked at it. Like many others, he was known to be a gym rat, and was always in the gym working on his game.

And as far as our team this year goes, unfortunately shooting is something that is typically developed/improved in the offseason, not during the season. So while we may be as good as we are going to be this year, that doesn't mean that the players cannot improve their shooting for future seasons.


Agree to disagree on this one. Mullin, thorough hard work, went from a very good shooter (which is what he started as) to a great one. I don't think you can go from terrible to great, regardless of the work you put in. With hard work, our terrible outside shooters can become adequate, but that's about the ceiling.
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(POST GAME) Butler, Tues. Dec. 31, 7:30pm, FS-1, 970AM 4 months 3 weeks ago #370325

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SJU61982 wrote:

Eric Williamson wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SLYFOXX1968 wrote:

Jnaw17 wrote:

SJU61982 wrote:

SJU2000alum15 wrote: I agree that Williams or Rutherford should have had the ball on that play.


I am not giving Rutherford the ball there, under any circumstances. I know he did it against Arizona, but that was because we pushed it up the floor. His whole game is steals, and beating the defender down the court. In the set offense, he's a negative.

Had no problem with Dunn getting it there. He seems to want the ball late in the games (I love that attribute about him, but it's going to cost you sometimes), and has already come through twice for us this year. Dunn driving was the only option, and either go up with it, or kick out to LJ.


Did you watch tonight’s game? He drove the ball in the half court several times. Butler couldn’t stay with him.

. Could not disagree more . Rutherford deserved the ball on the last possession , not Dunn. Even Williams in that spot .


I was talking about Rutherford. He drove the ball successfully several times in the half court tonight. He was our best creator on offense.

. I agree with you , not the post that inexplicably trashed Rutherford , who was the best player on the Court for us tonight . Williams played well too .


I wasn't trashing Rutherford, and I agree that he was our best player tonight. That's not even really up for debate.

I just don't believe that running the half court offense is his strength. Steals, and beating the defense down the court, are his strengths.

I don't know if we have a strength in the half court offense, TBH, but with Heron out, Dunn has been our best 1-on-1 player over the course of the year. I was one of those people who pushed aside the McGriff injury, but maybe he would have helped us there.

. Dunn is a one dimensional player that is exciting to watch but , he should never shoot the ball . He goes to the hoop strong but , can’t shoot a lick . And , he isn’t a Playmaker who makes his teammates better . But , he contributes when he plays his game . Not try to be a long range shooter .,


Nobody on this team can shoot a lick. I think it's time that we, as a fanbase, come to grips with that. It's something we can't do, not something we're not doing. We could improve a little bit, but I've always felt that great shooters are born with that ability.

Dunn is more of a scoring guard, then a point (Larry Brown would hate him, but that just makes me like Dunn more), but until tonight, Rutherford was too much in the other direction, IMO. I dread him taking the outside shot, and feel that he's open for a reason. We were almost playing 4-on-5 offensively, while he was out there. Hopefully, tonight was a breakthrough, but I'm skeptical.


I'm sorry but I could not disagree more with your viewpoint on shooters. Shooting ability is NOT something that you are just born with. If you ask any of the great shooters in the history of the game how they became great, they all are going to tell you the same thing: Practice and repetition. Chris Mullin didn't just wake up one day as a great shooter, or wasn't just born as a great shooter. He worked at it. Like many others, he was known to be a gym rat, and was always in the gym working on his game.

And as far as our team this year goes, unfortunately shooting is something that is typically developed/improved in the offseason, not during the season. So while we may be as good as we are going to be this year, that doesn't mean that the players cannot improve their shooting for future seasons.


Agree to disagree on this one. Mullin, thorough hard work, went from a very good shooter (which is what he started as) to a great one. I don't think you can go from terrible to great, regardless of the work you put in. With hard work, our terrible outside shooters can become adequate, but that's about the ceiling.


Dr J a prime example of someone who was a terrible outside shooter ( when he got to the pros with the Virginia Squires) and made himself in to an adequate/good outside shooter through hard work. In fairness to him, prior to becoming a pro he didn’t need to have an outside shot, since he was so unstoppable in every other aspect of his offensive game.

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