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TOPIC: Defensive effort

Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306806

  • MJDinkins
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Moose wrote:

we are sju wrote: If we don't make tourney this year experiment was failure and should end.
I will say this. No matter what happens I thought the last 2 years though frustrating at times, the teams were enjoyable to watch. Sorry to keep bringing it back to Norm but he was really the only coach here who I absolutely wanted to be fired. His teams were bad and terrible to watch. Don't find that with Mullin even if the results have not been great.


Were you a fan of SJU when Mullin played?


I became a fan during Mullin's senior season (of course, the year the Johnnies were ranked #1 in the country for several weeks and the last time we went to the Final Four). But I first witnessed Mullin play when he was a sophomore, as I'm a longer college hoops fan than I am a St. John's fan.

The difference is I can separate Mullin the player from Mullin the coach. So, the hell with nostalgia and affinity towards him as being a Johnnies legend. I'd feel the same way if it was Walter Berry, as he's the player that initially caught my attention (and my favorite St. John's player of all-time, if I had to choose one) when I became a fan of the Johnnies.

Toss that nostalgia BS out the door, as it doesn't win games.
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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306808

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Marillac wrote:

Class of 72 wrote: How many blocks do we have this season? Agree or disagree but Owens protected the rim. He was a big loss on the defensive end. I would have made Clark the 6th man to accommodate him. Unfortunately, Clark left Michigan State because he was not content being the 6th man. Our program has been at the mercy of transfer players demanding the role they were promised while negotiating with Matt.
The issue of defense is moot. No one on thus staff coaches college defense. They coach pro offense. That will not change.


Blocks is an overrated stat. We were ranked 6th in blocks per game last year and 4th the year before that, but we were not a good team either year.

I'd rather have a team that plays better position defense, fills lanes against drives, and boxes out.


Blocks isn't an overrated stat, as much as it can be an overrated stat. Blocks has to be taken in context. Every team and player who blocks shots doesn't particularly tell the whole story one way or another.

I can tell you those Georgetown teams with Ewing, Mourning and Mutumbo swatting shots left and right only added to what Georgetown brought from an overall defensive standpoint. Give me a shotblocker all day, as long as the team AND shotblocker understands how to competently defend.
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Last edit: by MJDinkins.

Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306809

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MJDinkins wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Class of 72 wrote: How many blocks do we have this season? Agree or disagree but Owens protected the rim. He was a big loss on the defensive end. I would have made Clark the 6th man to accommodate him. Unfortunately, Clark left Michigan State because he was not content being the 6th man. Our program has been at the mercy of transfer players demanding the role they were promised while negotiating with Matt.
The issue of defense is moot. No one on thus staff coaches college defense. They coach pro offense. That will not change.


Blocks is an overrated stat. We were ranked 6th in blocks per game last year and 4th the year before that, but we were not a good team either year.

I'd rather have a team that plays better position defense, fills lanes against drives, and boxes out.


Blocks isn't an overrated stat, as much as it can be an overrated stat. I can tell you those Georgetown teams with Ewing, Mourning and Mutumbo swatting shots left and right only added to what Georgetown brought from an overall defensive standpoint.


I can't disagree with those examples. I'd add what Ken Johnson of Ohio State did to us as well. It all depends on whether the shotblocker is sacrificing his defensive and/or rebounding position in order to get the block.

Owens, Yakwe, and Obekpa typically sold out for the block and that left us susceptible for layups or offensive rebounds.

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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306810

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Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote: I think we would have been on the bubble last year if Lovett didn't screw us over. I also think the staff learned a lesson there. Next year the team will be a tournament team IMO and the finally balanced roster should be able to keep the inertia going in a positive direction. It's a lot easier to stay good than become good.


You mean with Heron I presume. Because otherwise

PG- Mack
SG- Dixon/Wright
SF- Simon/Williams
PF- LJ
C- Steere/Keita

That's not a tournament team


Yes, I believe Heron will stay. He took the risk of sitting out this year and he's not really on the radar for the NBA in a deep SG/SF class. He would benefit by being the man next season and showing more playmaking ability.

Mack
Heron
Simon
Figueroa
Keita

That's a nice starting 5 and Wright, Dixon, Caraher, Williams, Trimble, Roberts, and Steere is a great bench.


If he stays I can't disagree.

I also put Simon on there but as we know he does have an option.


That is true. I'd have a meeting with him, Heron, and Ponds after the season naming them captains, encouraging them to seek evaluation from the NBA, and laying out the plan for 2020.

I don't think Heron gets an invite to the combine and therefore will be back. Simon will have more play-making opportunities with Ponds gone and a soph PG projected to start.


Mullin needs to land Precious. Period! He needs to prove he has recruiting cred. If he does, the lineup would be
STEERE
PRECIOUS
FIGUEROA
HERON
SIMON
Off the bench
MACK
KEITA
WRIGHT
DIXON
WILLIAMS
CARAHER
Everyone else will have transferred or left.
All characters and events depicted in this post are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 

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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306811

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Class of 72 wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote: I think we would have been on the bubble last year if Lovett didn't screw us over. I also think the staff learned a lesson there. Next year the team will be a tournament team IMO and the finally balanced roster should be able to keep the inertia going in a positive direction. It's a lot easier to stay good than become good.


You mean with Heron I presume. Because otherwise

PG- Mack
SG- Dixon/Wright
SF- Simon/Williams
PF- LJ
C- Steere/Keita

That's not a tournament team


Yes, I believe Heron will stay. He took the risk of sitting out this year and he's not really on the radar for the NBA in a deep SG/SF class. He would benefit by being the man next season and showing more playmaking ability.

Mack
Heron
Simon
Figueroa
Keita

That's a nice starting 5 and Wright, Dixon, Caraher, Williams, Trimble, Roberts, and Steere is a great bench.


If he stays I can't disagree.

I also put Simon on there but as we know he does have an option.


That is true. I'd have a meeting with him, Heron, and Ponds after the season naming them captains, encouraging them to seek evaluation from the NBA, and laying out the plan for 2020.

I don't think Heron gets an invite to the combine and therefore will be back. Simon will have more play-making opportunities with Ponds gone and a soph PG projected to start.


Mullin needs to land Precious. Period! He needs to prove he has recruiting cred. If he does, the lineup would be
STEERE
PRECIOUS
FIGUEROA
HERON
SIMON
Off the bench
MACK
KEITA
WRIGHT
DIXON
WILLIAMS
CARAHER
Everyone else will have transferred or left.


Yikes, who is our starting point guard under your scenario, Simon? I like Simon, but his handle is suspect.

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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306826

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Boo Harvey wrote:

Class of 72 wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote: I think we would have been on the bubble last year if Lovett didn't screw us over. I also think the staff learned a lesson there. Next year the team will be a tournament team IMO and the finally balanced roster should be able to keep the inertia going in a positive direction. It's a lot easier to stay good than become good.


You mean with Heron I presume. Because otherwise

PG- Mack
SG- Dixon/Wright
SF- Simon/Williams
PF- LJ
C- Steere/Keita

That's not a tournament team


Yes, I believe Heron will stay. He took the risk of sitting out this year and he's not really on the radar for the NBA in a deep SG/SF class. He would benefit by being the man next season and showing more playmaking ability.

Mack
Heron
Simon
Figueroa
Keita

That's a nice starting 5 and Wright, Dixon, Caraher, Williams, Trimble, Roberts, and Steere is a great bench.


If he stays I can't disagree.

I also put Simon on there but as we know he does have an option.


That is true. I'd have a meeting with him, Heron, and Ponds after the season naming them captains, encouraging them to seek evaluation from the NBA, and laying out the plan for 2020.

I don't think Heron gets an invite to the combine and therefore will be back. Simon will have more play-making opportunities with Ponds gone and a soph PG projected to start.


Mullin needs to land Precious. Period! He needs to prove he has recruiting cred. If he does, the lineup would be
STEERE
PRECIOUS
FIGUEROA
HERON
SIMON
Off the bench
MACK
KEITA
WRIGHT
DIXON
WILLIAMS
CARAHER
Everyone else will have transferred or left.


Yikes, who is our starting point guard under your scenario, Simon? I like Simon, but his handle is suspect.

Simon would split time with Mack. Remember. .......... this is positionless basketball and my lineup has NBA height and a deep bench.
With Precious we go to the Sweet 16 baby!;)
All characters and events depicted in this post are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 

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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306849

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Class of 72 wrote:

Boo Harvey wrote:

Class of 72 wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote: I think we would have been on the bubble last year if Lovett didn't screw us over. I also think the staff learned a lesson there. Next year the team will be a tournament team IMO and the finally balanced roster should be able to keep the inertia going in a positive direction. It's a lot easier to stay good than become good.


You mean with Heron I presume. Because otherwise

PG- Mack
SG- Dixon/Wright
SF- Simon/Williams
PF- LJ
C- Steere/Keita

That's not a tournament team


Yes, I believe Heron will stay. He took the risk of sitting out this year and he's not really on the radar for the NBA in a deep SG/SF class. He would benefit by being the man next season and showing more playmaking ability.

Mack
Heron
Simon
Figueroa
Keita

That's a nice starting 5 and Wright, Dixon, Caraher, Williams, Trimble, Roberts, and Steere is a great bench.


If he stays I can't disagree.

I also put Simon on there but as we know he does have an option.


That is true. I'd have a meeting with him, Heron, and Ponds after the season naming them captains, encouraging them to seek evaluation from the NBA, and laying out the plan for 2020.

I don't think Heron gets an invite to the combine and therefore will be back. Simon will have more play-making opportunities with Ponds gone and a soph PG projected to start.


Mullin needs to land Precious. Period! He needs to prove he has recruiting cred. If he does, the lineup would be
STEERE
PRECIOUS
FIGUEROA
HERON
SIMON
Off the bench
MACK
KEITA
WRIGHT
DIXON
WILLIAMS
CARAHER
Everyone else will have transferred or left.


Yikes, who is our starting point guard under your scenario, Simon? I like Simon, but his handle is suspect.

Simon would split time with Mack. Remember. .......... this is positionless basketball and my lineup has NBA height and a deep bench.
With Precious we go to the Sweet 16 baby!;)


I haven’t seen Precious play. I know he’s a top recruit but is the consensus that he’ll be a program changer right out of the gate?

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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306853

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Marillac wrote:

fordham96 wrote:

Moose wrote:

we are sju wrote: In reading the paper and listening to Mullin's post game interview, I am not sure the correct message is being relayed properly. Now ultimately closing out on shooters is just effort and it is on the players. I am positive that the message of closing out with more effort is being told to the players. However the fact that his has been a theme for two years now and is the primary reason we have not played well to date, it should be the primary theme for the team. It should be the team's manta at this point. In all the interviews I have read and the Mullin interview the fact that we simply do not guard on the perimeter was not even mentioned. How is that possible. And that message should start at the top so yes I blame Mullin and staff for this message not being properly sent and or received.


We're 8-0
Stop complaining.


Exactly. Didn't you know if SJU pressed the whole game they would have won by 50 and no one would have cared about all the 3 pointers they gave up anyway.


You're such a sniveling little dweeb. You've never played or coached an organized sport in your life, so I don't expect you to understand the purpose of a game like this.

Do you want to add stupid to your first ballot Horrible Poster Hall of Fame resume? You're already the most annoying and unlikable person ever to grace a St. John's forum. Adding stupidity would make you a prolific triple threat.


Jesus...anyway some people seem fairly confident there's a chance Heron comes back. I thought the feeling was that was a longshot, or has that changed? If he came back that would be huge for next year as he would be the focal point of our offense and we'd have 2 legit big men.

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Last edit: by Mike Zaun.

Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306857

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Boo Harvey wrote:

Class of 72 wrote:

Boo Harvey wrote:

Class of 72 wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote:

Moose wrote:

Marillac wrote: I think we would have been on the bubble last year if Lovett didn't screw us over. I also think the staff learned a lesson there. Next year the team will be a tournament team IMO and the finally balanced roster should be able to keep the inertia going in a positive direction. It's a lot easier to stay good than become good.


You mean with Heron I presume. Because otherwise

PG- Mack
SG- Dixon/Wright
SF- Simon/Williams
PF- LJ
C- Steere/Keita

That's not a tournament team


Yes, I believe Heron will stay. He took the risk of sitting out this year and he's not really on the radar for the NBA in a deep SG/SF class. He would benefit by being the man next season and showing more playmaking ability.

Mack
Heron
Simon
Figueroa
Keita

That's a nice starting 5 and Wright, Dixon, Caraher, Williams, Trimble, Roberts, and Steere is a great bench.


If he stays I can't disagree.

I also put Simon on there but as we know he does have an option.


That is true. I'd have a meeting with him, Heron, and Ponds after the season naming them captains, encouraging them to seek evaluation from the NBA, and laying out the plan for 2020.

I don't think Heron gets an invite to the combine and therefore will be back. Simon will have more play-making opportunities with Ponds gone and a soph PG projected to start.


Mullin needs to land Precious. Period! He needs to prove he has recruiting cred. If he does, the lineup would be
STEERE
PRECIOUS
FIGUEROA
HERON
SIMON
Off the bench
MACK
KEITA
WRIGHT
DIXON
WILLIAMS
CARAHER
Everyone else will have transferred or left.


Yikes, who is our starting point guard under your scenario, Simon? I like Simon, but his handle is suspect.

Simon would split time with Mack. Remember. .......... this is positionless basketball and my lineup has NBA height and a deep bench.
With Precious we go to the Sweet 16 baby!;)


I haven’t seen Precious play. I know he’s a top recruit but is the consensus that he’ll be a program changer right out of the gate?


YES! At St. John's certainly because the program needs "changing". But as I have said before if Mullin loses Precious to Hurley I doubt he will ever be able to recruit that level player to St. John's. In that case, being Transfer U will not sit well with big time backers, fans and especially the new AD. Unless Mully miraculously takes us deep into the dance my gut tells me his time would be limited and certainly not offered any type of contract extension for the simple reason that transfers and JC's don't look at a coach from a 4 year perspective. If Mullin can't get the sons, brothers or anyone close to the program to come he won't do it with complete strangers to the program in Texas, California or Serbia. Losing Precious to Hurley will be a lasting testament to recruiting failure by this staff. Mark these words in a sticky.
All characters and events depicted in this post are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 

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Defensive effort 1 week 1 day ago #306858

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Mike Zaun wrote:

Marillac wrote:

fordham96 wrote:

Moose wrote:

we are sju wrote: In reading the paper and listening to Mullin's post game interview, I am not sure the correct message is being relayed properly. Now ultimately closing out on shooters is just effort and it is on the players. I am positive that the message of closing out with more effort is being told to the players. However the fact that his has been a theme for two years now and is the primary reason we have not played well to date, it should be the primary theme for the team. It should be the team's manta at this point. In all the interviews I have read and the Mullin interview the fact that we simply do not guard on the perimeter was not even mentioned. How is that possible. And that message should start at the top so yes I blame Mullin and staff for this message not being properly sent and or received.


We're 8-0
Stop complaining.


Exactly. Didn't you know if SJU pressed the whole game they would have won by 50 and no one would have cared about all the 3 pointers they gave up anyway.


You're such a sniveling little dweeb. You've never played or coached an organized sport in your life, so I don't expect you to understand the purpose of a game like this.

Do you want to add stupid to your first ballot Horrible Poster Hall of Fame resume? You're already the most annoying and unlikable person ever to grace a St. John's forum. Adding stupidity would make you a prolific triple threat.


Jesus...anyway some people seem fairly confident there's a chance Heron comes back. I thought the feeling was that was a longshot, or has that changed? If he came back that would be huge for next year as he would be the focal point of our offense and we'd have 2 legit big men.


There is a chance half the team will not be back depending on how the season ends and the staff makeup in April.
We are St. John's. Anything is possible. ;)
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