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TOPIC: Recruiting to Date

Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306370

  • gman
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They have done a great job in the transfer/JUCO game, but the HS recruiting leaves a lot to be desired. They have struck out on all the big recruits and settle for diamonds in the rough (that are rough). The 4 star recruits haven't panned out and it makes me question their eye for raw talent. They seem to want upside over steadiness but that is a great way to strike out a lot
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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306373

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NCJohnnie wrote: Fordham96 wrote: Just answer one question and if your answer is yes then I will accept that. Honest question.

Are you confident the current recruiting strategy will get the type of kids that can consistently lift this program to the type of level we all thought it could be when Mullin was hired? Meaning consistent NCAA team and consistently at the level of the top BE teams including Villanova? If your honest answer is YES then fine. But if it is not then you can at least understand the skepticism some of us have. That is all.

Fordham96, to answer your question to MG, I am cautiously optimistic that after this year, staff will have gotten the program to a point where it can consistently be a top half of BE team vying for an NCAA berth which almost everyone on this board would consider success. If we have an excellent year this year, retain our current players other than Ponds & Heron (especially Simon) and bring at least one key HS recruit, I think program will have gotten a reputation and rhythm where it can be successful going forward. I am not ready to say that transfer U is going to be our only recruiting strategy as opposed to a key part of it, and hope it isn't. But as many have said since the end of last year, this year is key. If we are sitting here next year with only the recruits we have now and a couple of lower level three stars, I will have plenty of doubts. I do believe in giving staff and players the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. It is not a Mullin thing, it is the way I root for all my favorite teams and I did the same when Lavin was here.




I totally agree NCJohnnie. Last year it looked like we were on our way until Marcus Lovett got hurt. I believe that if we win this year year, we will put ourselves in a position to get commitments from the better high school players. Once the staff shows that they can coach talented players, more will come. Jack Williams mentioned UCONN. Players are not committing to UCONN, they are committing to Danny Hurley because he has shown that he can win.

As far as next year is concerned, so far we have Mack and Steere committed, with Caraher and Wright sitting out this season. If we win this year, there is a good chance that we get Precious.

Learned a long time ago, "yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live for today". Since we are 7-0 this morning, I am going to enjoy today.
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Last edit: by panther2.

Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306374

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panther2 wrote:

NCJohnnie wrote: Fordham96 wrote: Just answer one question and if your answer is yes then I will accept that. Honest question.

Are you confident the current recruiting strategy will get the type of kids that can consistently lift this program to the type of level we all thought it could be when Mullin was hired? Meaning consistent NCAA team and consistently at the level of the top BE teams including Villanova? If your honest answer is YES then fine. But if it is not then you can at least understand the skepticism some of us have. That is all.

Fordham96, to answer your question to MG, I am cautiously optimistic that after this year, staff will have gotten the program to a point where it can consistently be a top half of BE team vying for an NCAA berth which almost everyone on this board would consider success. If we have an excellent year this year, retain our current players other than Ponds & Heron (especially Simon) and bring at least one key HS recruit, I think program will have gotten a reputation and rhythm where it can be successful going forward. I am not ready to say that transfer U is going to be our only recruiting strategy as opposed to a key part of it, and hope it isn't. But as many have said since the end of last year, this year is key. If we are sitting here next year with only the recruits we have now and a couple of lower level three stars, I will have plenty of doubts. I do believe in giving staff and players the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. It is not a Mullin thing, it is the way I root for all my favorite teams and I did the same when Lavin was here.




I totally agree NCJohnnie. Last year it looked like we were on our way until Marcus Lovett got hurt. I believe that if we win this year year, we will put ourselves in a position to get commitments from the better high school players. Once the staff shows that they can coach talented players, more will come. Jack Williams mentioned UCONN. Players are not committing to UCONN, they are committing to Danny Hurley because he has shown that he can win.

As far as next year is concerned, so far we have Mack and Steere committed, with Caraher and Wright sitting out this season. If we win this year, there is a good chance that we get Precious.

Learned a long time ago, "yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live for today". Since we are 7-0 this morning, I am going to enjoy today.

As I mellow, much later than suggested, I find this approach re Johnnies more appealing every day. Not heresy or disloyalty to criticize recent HS recruiting, but reasonable to hope that a positive season could be “Precious” in turning that around. Still suggest a second able recruiter will help on several levels. Enjoy the season.
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Last edit: by Paultzman.

Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306375

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OhioFan wrote: Thanks North. But why let the facts get in the way of bitching and complaining?


I'm happy to get Cam recently and LJ was a fantastic addition. Also a great transfer get from Steere. Matt A has been the 1 staff member that has really produced and it seems like Greg is totally committed and hungry as well. I'll credit Mullin for adding toughness to the team. But with all that being said, I think it's silly to be so dismissive of legitimate fan concerns and write them off as "bitching". Bitching implies it's totally unwarranted or menial. Despite the transfer and JUCO success, we have had close to zero success with 4 star HS recruits and to dismiss that is pretty astounding IMO. No I'm not saying the sky is falling, but any objective person would note this in the Mullin era. As I've said, Lavin's worst recruiting year is comparable to Mullin's best in terms of HS recruits. And I say that as someone who wanted Lavin gone. Personally, I don't think missing on every 4 star HS recruit is sustainable but so far Matt A has been able to get by getting impact transfers just as the clock strikes midnight. I hope we get some impact HS recruits to blend with our JUCOs and transfers. I could be wrong of course these are my opinions as to whether or not it will work. But it is plain fact that we have struck out completely getting 4 star HS recruits...3 years and counting since Ponds. I hope this current model continues to succeed without them.

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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306377

  • redmanwest
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Many good points on all sides. There's not one valid perspective.

I think most would agree that (i) overall, the talent level is much, much better than it was a few years ago; (ii) Matt has been terrific doing yeoman's work and a second bona fide recruiter would be a big boost; (iii) high school recruiting must stabilize to re-establish a normal recruiting pattern, supplemented by transfers; and recruiting and retention of big men must improve.

I agree that a good season could help us land one or more good HS players (hopefully PA included), so let's all hope that in the BE season we don't under-perform, we make the tourney and show HS kids that Queens is a viable and attractive destination.

All told, I am pleased at the slow and steady progress. More needs to be done, but we're getting there.
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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306378

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Do not be surprised if all 3 freshmen transfer after this year..
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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306379

  • Dan V
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At this point the "Transfer U" title should be embraced. At least it gives us a niche or identity that separates us from the pack. Otherwise we are the commuter school that used to be good back in the day and now has the worst facilities in the conference. A new arena is apparently impossible to even think about so that will always be a thing. As long as Matt is recruiting 95% of our players this is the formula. This is how he operates and its not a bad strategy all things considered. We need to get creative with recruiting because SJU will never consistently land 5 star guys. If we can get this thing clicking like Nevada or Hoibergs Iowa St than we would be set. Not going to get much better than that with the current makeup of this staff. Im not expecting us to land Precious, but even so im happy with Mack and Steere so far. Mack looks like a legit big PG and Steere is a legit big size wise. Hopefully they get Steere eligible at the beginning instead of december 2019. Just have to wait and see with this staff when it comes to recruiting, thats one thing ive learned since Mullin and Matt have been here.
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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306380

  • Sherman, Sheridan & Grant
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redmanwest wrote: Many good points on all sides. There's not one valid perspective.

I think most would agree that (i) overall, the talent level is much, much better than it was a few years ago; (ii) Matt has been terrific doing yeoman's work and a second bona fide recruiter would be a big boost; (iii) high school recruiting must stabilize to re-establish a normal recruiting pattern, supplemented by transfers; and recruiting and retention of big men must improve.

I agree that a good season could help us land one or more good HS players (hopefully PA included), so let's all hope that in the BE season we don't under-perform, we make the tourney and show HS kids that Queens is a viable and attractive destination.

All told, I am pleased at the slow and steady progress. More needs to be done, but we're getting there.


Very nice post RMW
A little balance in perspective helps
:)

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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306381

  • MarkRedman
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I am very conflicted regarding this topic. I love our roster (although one more "big" would have been helpful) but I don't like the fact that Matt does too much of the heavy lifting in this department. He needs (and deserves to have) more help in this regard.

As far as transfers are concerned, I love most of the guys that have come to St John's under the CM regime but still believe that we have to have greater balance and recruit more quality high school players. Certainly, if we make the NCAA's this year (as we should), the hope is that we get Precious and open the pipeline to more of the "better" high school talent in the years to come.

There is a very interesting article in Sports Illustrated this week about college basketball transfers. The number of "up transfers" (transferring from a mid major to a major program) has risen from 9 players in 2010-11 to 84 this year. The number of "up grad transfers" (graduating from a mid major and moving to a major program) has risen from 5 players in 2010-11 to 33 this season. The total number of graduate transfers has risen from 25 in 2012-13 to 124 this year.

So, clearly, our recruiting has followed this national trend and has served us well thus far. I only hope that the success that we have this season on the court will enable us to become stronger players in the high school recruiting market in the future so that transfers become supplements rather than our primary targets.

In the meantime, let's enjoy this season. I want to have a rooting interest during March Madness for a change this year.

GO JOHNNIES!!!
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Recruiting to Date 1 week 3 days ago #306382

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If all three freshmen transfer at end of year as Manhattan1 suggests, which I don't believe will happen, would be for the benefit of both players and SJU if they don't have the talent to play in the big east.

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