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TOPIC: Around the Big East 18/19

Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322059

  • IDRAFT
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fordham96 wrote: Count me in the group that hopes that SJU doesn't need to "exceed" expectations when it has a good year because that IS the expectation. That is why you make coaching changes after back to back 10-8 years, because the expectation here at SJU should be to compete for BE titles year in and year out. Maybe not immediately after the coach takes over, he deserves a few years to build, but eventually that should be the goal.


That's a nice goal, but expectation? The Big East is a ten team league, as a starting point every team has a one in ten chance of winning or coming in last every year. What about SJU can anyone point to that would make it a program that can buck the math and consistently compete to win the league?

I'm not defending the current regimes record at all, but I will say that I voted to retain Lavin in the famous poll here and didn't understand exactly what the problem was at the time. I think one of the problems SJU has had at the administration level is not knowing who they are. This is a program that has hardly made the tournament in the last 25 years and twice fired a coach for doing so. How often do coaches get fired for making the tournament?

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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322060

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IDRAFT wrote:

fordham96 wrote: Count me in the group that hopes that SJU doesn't need to "exceed" expectations when it has a good year because that IS the expectation. That is why you make coaching changes after back to back 10-8 years, because the expectation here at SJU should be to compete for BE titles year in and year out. Maybe not immediately after the coach takes over, he deserves a few years to build, but eventually that should be the goal.


That's a nice goal, but expectation? The Big East is a ten team league, as a starting point every team has a one in ten chance of winning or coming in last every year. What about SJU can anyone point to that would make it a program that can buck the math and consistently compete to win the league?

I'm not defending the current regimes record at all, but I will say that I voted to retain Lavin in the famous poll here and didn't understand exactly what the problem was at the time. I think one of the problems SJU has had at the administration level is not knowing who they are. This is a program that has hardly made the tournament in the last 25 years and twice fired a coach for doing so. How often do coaches get fired for making the tournament?


A better coach doing a better job would have SJU further along at this point. That doesn't mean you fire him necessarily but you also don't hide legitimate criticism. This isn't bad luck, this is bad recruiting and bad strategy.

Also the expectation was set several years ago. It was tweeted out by Braziller who got it from the staff directly. The goal was to have the program in the NCAA's by year THREE and consistently top 25 upper BE after that. That was the goal.

As for Lavin. It is revisionism. But Lavin would not have been given 4 ADDITIONAL years. Assuming he would have gotten extended two things:
1)He would have had to make some staff changes and
2)After a quick rebuild of the roster would have been expected to compete at a high level the following year (meaning 2nd year after he got extended).

Or he would have been terminated 2 years ago.

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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322061

  • Mike Zaun
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Expectations are relative to resources, talent, etc. Lavin recruited very well early on but had no real results relative to what they should have done. He barely made the tourney scraping and clawing with tons of talent and once we made the tourney we fell apart instantly. Then even his recruiting slowed down a lot which was his big strength originally. He also did not show he really had a system other than running a weave where we would take about 10 seconds off the shot clock just passing in a circle while the opponent defenses simply stood there. He recruited athletes that were not skilled except for Harrison and could not develop players. His teams did not show up for big games whether they were the Big East tourney, NCAA tourney, or the NIT. He should have at worst made the 2nd weekend a few years and arguably a Sweet 16 with all the talent he had.

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Last edit: by Mike Zaun.

Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322062

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Mike Zaun wrote: Expectations are relative to resources, talent, etc. Lavin recruited very well early on but had no real results relative to what they should have done. He barely made the tourney scraping and clawing with tons of talent and once we made the tourney we fell apart instantly. Then even his recruiting slowed down a lot which was his big strength originally. He also did not show he really had a system other than running a weave where we would take about 10 seconds off the shot clock just passing in a circle while the opponent defenses simply stood there. He recruited athletes that were not skilled except for Harrison and could not develop players. His teams did not show up for big games whether they were the Big East tourney, NCAA tourney, or the NIT. He should have at worst made the 2nd weekend a few years and arguably a Sweet 16 with all the talent he had.


wow Nostalgia is a powerful thing. This post brought me back to 2014 in an instant. Back then, every 3rd or fourth post on this board looked exactly like this post above. Over and over.

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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322068

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fordham96 wrote:

IDRAFT wrote:

fordham96 wrote: Count me in the group that hopes that SJU doesn't need to "exceed" expectations when it has a good year because that IS the expectation. That is why you make coaching changes after back to back 10-8 years, because the expectation here at SJU should be to compete for BE titles year in and year out. Maybe not immediately after the coach takes over, he deserves a few years to build, but eventually that should be the goal.


That's a nice goal, but expectation? The Big East is a ten team league, as a starting point every team has a one in ten chance of winning or coming in last every year. What about SJU can anyone point to that would make it a program that can buck the math and consistently compete to win the league?

I'm not defending the current regimes record at all, but I will say that I voted to retain Lavin in the famous poll here and didn't understand exactly what the problem was at the time. I think one of the problems SJU has had at the administration level is not knowing who they are. This is a program that has hardly made the tournament in the last 25 years and twice fired a coach for doing so. How often do coaches get fired for making the tournament?


A better coach doing a better job would have SJU further along at this point. That doesn't mean you fire him necessarily but you also don't hide legitimate criticism. This isn't bad luck, this is bad recruiting and bad strategy.

Also the expectation was set several years ago. It was tweeted out by Braziller who got it from the staff directly. The goal was to have the program in the NCAA's by year THREE and consistently top 25 upper BE after that. That was the goal.

As for Lavin. It is revisionism. But Lavin would not have been given 4 ADDITIONAL years. Assuming he would have gotten extended two things:
1)He would have had to make some staff changes and
2)After a quick rebuild of the roster would have been expected to compete at a high level the following year (meaning 2nd year after he got extended).

Or he would have been terminated 2 years ago.


You said the expectation should be to compete for titles ever year. I asked what about SJU makes that a realistic expectation? Your response doesnt apply to the question. I'm not defending Mullin or Lavin or anyone in particular. But what about SJU makes them some sort of sleeping giant? Besides wanting to be one.

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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322072

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IDRAFT, the ridiculously talented and experienced roster is what gave us these expectations and that was even before we knew LJ would be a stud immediately. Major pundits said we will be arguably the most talented in the conference in a down year, so how is expecting to compete for a Big East title too much to ask for?

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Last edit: by Mike Zaun.

Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322077

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fordham96 wrote:

IDRAFT wrote:

fordham96 wrote: Count me in the group that hopes that SJU doesn't need to "exceed" expectations when it has a good year because that IS the expectation. That is why you make coaching changes after back to back 10-8 years, because the expectation here at SJU should be to compete for BE titles year in and year out. Maybe not immediately after the coach takes over, he deserves a few years to build, but eventually that should be the goal.


That's a nice goal, but expectation? The Big East is a ten team league, as a starting point every team has a one in ten chance of winning or coming in last every year. What about SJU can anyone point to that would make it a program that can buck the math and consistently compete to win the league?

I'm not defending the current regimes record at all, but I will say that I voted to retain Lavin in the famous poll here and didn't understand exactly what the problem was at the time. I think one of the problems SJU has had at the administration level is not knowing who they are. This is a program that has hardly made the tournament in the last 25 years and twice fired a coach for doing so. How often do coaches get fired for making the tournament?


A better coach doing a better job would have SJU further along at this point. That doesn't mean you fire him necessarily but you also don't hide legitimate criticism. This isn't bad luck, this is bad recruiting and bad strategy.

Also the expectation was set several years ago. It was tweeted out by Braziller who got it from the staff directly. The goal was to have the program in the NCAA's by year THREE and consistently top 25 upper BE after that. That was the goal.

As for Lavin. It is revisionism. But Lavin would not have been given 4 ADDITIONAL years. Assuming he would have gotten extended two things:
1)He would have had to make some staff changes and
2)After a quick rebuild of the roster would have been expected to compete at a high level the following year (meaning 2nd year after he got extended).

Or he would have been terminated 2 years ago.


Had Lovett not gotten hurt last year team was on its way to the tourney in my opinion. Not an excuse bit a bad break. Lets see how this year pans out before we go to far!!!! Many games and twists and turns left.

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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322080

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RJGBOOTSY wrote:

fordham96 wrote:

IDRAFT wrote:

fordham96 wrote: Count me in the group that hopes that SJU doesn't need to "exceed" expectations when it has a good year because that IS the expectation. That is why you make coaching changes after back to back 10-8 years, because the expectation here at SJU should be to compete for BE titles year in and year out. Maybe not immediately after the coach takes over, he deserves a few years to build, but eventually that should be the goal.


That's a nice goal, but expectation? The Big East is a ten team league, as a starting point every team has a one in ten chance of winning or coming in last every year. What about SJU can anyone point to that would make it a program that can buck the math and consistently compete to win the league?

I'm not defending the current regimes record at all, but I will say that I voted to retain Lavin in the famous poll here and didn't understand exactly what the problem was at the time. I think one of the problems SJU has had at the administration level is not knowing who they are. This is a program that has hardly made the tournament in the last 25 years and twice fired a coach for doing so. How often do coaches get fired for making the tournament?


A better coach doing a better job would have SJU further along at this point. That doesn't mean you fire him necessarily but you also don't hide legitimate criticism. This isn't bad luck, this is bad recruiting and bad strategy.

Also the expectation was set several years ago. It was tweeted out by Braziller who got it from the staff directly. The goal was to have the program in the NCAA's by year THREE and consistently top 25 upper BE after that. That was the goal.

As for Lavin. It is revisionism. But Lavin would not have been given 4 ADDITIONAL years. Assuming he would have gotten extended two things:
1)He would have had to make some staff changes and
2)After a quick rebuild of the roster would have been expected to compete at a high level the following year (meaning 2nd year after he got extended).

Or he would have been terminated 2 years ago.


Had Lovett not gotten hurt last year team was on its way to the tourney in my opinion. Not an excuse bit a bad break. Lets see how this year pans out before we go to far!!!! Many games and twists and turns left.


I agree Bootsy, I think if Lovett doesn’t get hurt and leave we make the tournament last season
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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322082

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I think with LoVett last year we win the whole enchilada.

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Around the Big East 18/19 6 months 1 week ago #322091

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Marillac wrote:

Mike Zaun wrote: Notice that other teams meet/exceed expectations. We never seem to. Cursed program.


Expectations set by the most delusional fans on sports will never be met.

I’m sure 3-4 firings will do the trick, though.


So just to get this straight you are happy as long as they're better than Depaul most of the time?
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