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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 5 days ago #394730

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Part of my commitment to STJ is rooted in respect for their upholding the Vincentian mission. To me that was best exemplified when Rob Thomas was honored on Senior Day with his diploma, even though one of his knees had gone through what trainers called the worst knee injury they had ever seen and he could no longer play competitive basketball. We sure could have used his scholly for someone else.
The passage from the gospel of Mark (8:36) may say it best

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Not having an organized religion of my own lets me take things from all of them.
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 5 days ago #394760

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Mike Zaun wrote:

fuchsia wrote:

Mike Zaun wrote: Beast, appreciate the long and interesting response. I think what many people are missing is this: maybe, just maybe Repole could actually make better hires than administration. Is that really far fetched? If I'm the administration, I say screw it and here are the keys. Give us tons of money, upgrade CA, give us $ to hire the very best coaches, get the very best recruits, etc. We always hear on this site how poorly SJ is doing financially and how we have no money. We will only keep losing students to cheaper SUNY/CUNY alternatives. We hear how poorly we do with donations. Our home arena has overgone some nice upgrades like the screen, redone court, SJ light logos, etc. but we also need comfort and fan amenities. We need better facilities...we are probably rock bottom in the Big East and by a good margin too. Think that doesn't affect recruiting? I'm sure we do have lots of big donors, but none seem to be as passionate and willing as Repole was. If $ was the big problem all along, we had our clear solution and let him walk away.


Mike, the question is always what are the criteria for a good or better hire. Is it bottom line financially, academic ranking, athletic success, avoiding ethical scandals, maintaining Catholic values, the Vincentian Mission. community acceptance...? I was a staff development executive in behavioral health and my dad was an inventor with multiple patents, some of which generated offshoot businesses. One of my sons is an innovation consultant in the finance industry and the other is a physician. Who's skill set is transferable to the others? Effective leadership goes way beyond the bottom line in dollars.


Win at all costs...a great basketball program drives applicants and therefore $$$. May not be moral, but that's the game. I know Lavin probably mucked it up a bit, but listening to him vs. listening to CMA as a recruit, it would be hard to choose CMA. A coach has to be a good coach (which Lavin was not and couldn't develop) but also a good salesman. That's what Danny Hurley and Willard are. You need to be able to take risk to get things to pay off. I just don't sense the hype I did in the past under Lavin and Mullin even in expected down years. I hope we can come off life support but the longer the recruiting looks bleak, the more concerned I become.

It’s interesting to note that increased performance in athletics can increase academic standards and donations. When Georgetown was a superpower in the 80 s ,there applications increased and they became more competitive academically. Same could be said of Duke.
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 5 days ago #394781

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Absolutely...I'd be lying if I said the basketball program had nothing at all to do with me picking SJU for grad school. I could've gone to Queens but the SJU campus was nicer, more connections to higher places, high major basketball, respected graduate programs, etc. I turned down a scholarship to come back to Marist since SJU was closer to home, a better grad program, and had a much better basketball program. It sounds silly if not ridiculous to many non-college sports fans, but it's true. Students want to be part of the fun. To see your college on TV...to see your logo prominently...students want to associate with that and say, "that's my school" with pride. This is also why Texas is very tough to get into if you're out of state and all the other big state schools. Their athletics are a brand all their own.
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 5 days ago #394782

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The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications

Boston College's greatest marketing campaign lasted about six seconds. It's called the "Flutie Effect." In a 1984 game against the University of Miami, BC quarterback Doug Flutie threw a last-second "Hail Mary" pass 48 yards that was miraculously caught for a game-winning touchdown—a climactic capper on one of the most exciting college football games ever. The play put BC on the map for college aspirants. In two years, applications had shot up 30 percent.

Ever since, marketing experts and school deans have acknowledged the power of the Flutie Effect's ability to transfer a successful collegiate athletic program into a hot ticket for admission. Georgetown University applications multiplied 45 percent between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern University applications advanced 21 percent after winning the Big Ten Championship in football.
[See linked article]

www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge...ations/#5a4f3eb16e96
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 5 days ago #394784

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otis wrote: The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications

Boston College's greatest marketing campaign lasted about six seconds. It's called the "Flutie Effect." In a 1984 game against the University of Miami, BC quarterback Doug Flutie threw a last-second "Hail Mary" pass 48 yards that was miraculously caught for a game-winning touchdown—a climactic capper on one of the most exciting college football games ever. The play put BC on the map for college aspirants. In two years, applications had shot up 30 percent.

Ever since, marketing experts and school deans have acknowledged the power of the Flutie Effect's ability to transfer a successful collegiate athletic program into a hot ticket for admission. Georgetown University applications multiplied 45 percent between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern University applications advanced 21 percent after winning the Big Ten Championship in football.
[See linked article]

www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge...ations/#5a4f3eb16e96


This is very true. I worked in college admissions for 10 years as a mini second career after retiring from my "real job". Many years ago, I attended a Sunday afternoon college fair at SUNY Old Westbury. Prior to the event, the organizers provided a nice brunch for the college reps. I sat with a rep from Michigan who told me that their win over Notre Dame in football the previous day would alone increase their applications by 20% for the next school year.

One of my best friends has a son who went to Indiana because Bobby Knight was the coach. The summer before the kid enrolled at IU, Knight got fired and was hired by Texas Tech. I jokingly asked the kid if he was going to follow Knight and switch schools. If my friend would have allowed it, the kid probably would have done so.

Lots of kids want to go to colleges that have big time sports. I would think that St John's basketball would be a big draw for high school kids, especially when our team is highly competitive.
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 5 days ago #394791

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MarkRedman wrote: ...... 1 would think that St John's basketball would be a big draw for high school kids, especially when our team is highly competitive.


I am not sure that the prior regime that ran StJ’s for decades appreciated the importance of a winning basketball team to admissions and a school’s positive image as witnessed by Harrington’s threat to terminate D1 basketball after the Pittsburgh incident.
nypost.com/2004/02/08/harrington-clean-up-or-shut-it-down/
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 4 days ago #394792

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Mark. Perfectly stated. I started at sju in '83 with a bunch of friends 'the buzz around was incredible
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 4 days ago #394794

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MarkRedman wrote:

otis wrote: The Flutie Effect: How Athletic Success Boosts College Applications

Boston College's greatest marketing campaign lasted about six seconds. It's called the "Flutie Effect." In a 1984 game against the University of Miami, BC quarterback Doug Flutie threw a last-second "Hail Mary" pass 48 yards that was miraculously caught for a game-winning touchdown—a climactic capper on one of the most exciting college football games ever. The play put BC on the map for college aspirants. In two years, applications had shot up 30 percent.

Ever since, marketing experts and school deans have acknowledged the power of the Flutie Effect's ability to transfer a successful collegiate athletic program into a hot ticket for admission. Georgetown University applications multiplied 45 percent between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern University applications advanced 21 percent after winning the Big Ten Championship in football.
[See linked article]

www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge...ations/#5a4f3eb16e96


This is very true. I worked in college admissions for 10 years as a mini second career after retiring from my "real job". Many years ago, I attended a Sunday afternoon college fair at SUNY Old Westbury. Prior to the event, the organizers provided a nice brunch for the college reps. I sat with a rep from Michigan who told me that their win over Notre Dame in football the previous day would alone increase their applications by 20% for the next school year.

One of my best friends has a son who went to Indiana because Bobby Knight was the coach. The summer before the kid enrolled at IU, Knight got fired and was hired by Texas Tech. I jokingly asked the kid if he was going to follow Knight and switch schools. If my friend would have allowed it, the kid probably would have done so.

Lots of kids want to go to colleges that have big time sports. I would think that St John's basketball would be a big draw for high school kids, especially when our team is highly competitive.


This is so funny but true...now picture me at Marist in 2011 about to graduate and watching SJ blow up nationally with all those top 10 wins. I lived with a Cuse fan and a Nova fan and they were raving about SJ. I couldn't wait to get there. I pulled into campus in 2012 my first year of grad school with WFAN on. Literally as soon as I put my car into park I hear, "BREAKING: Syracuse and Pitt set to leave Big East in an overnight shocker. They will be moving to the ACC". Then later that day and following days I heard about the breakup of the old Big East. I was shocked and saddened. But I'm glad it turned out to be ok. When I get crazy over wanting our program to be relevant, it's not just due to sports...it's because we need a good basketball program to drive our admissions.
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 4 days ago #394796

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My father went to SJU after WW2. I believe it was the prominence of the BB program that influenced his decision to attend. .He would tell me how great SJUBB was and the NIT was the major tourney then. And although I didnt go to SJU , His stories made me a fan.
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Jordan Riley, SG, Brentwood NY 1 week 4 days ago #394799

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fuchsia wrote: Part of my commitment to STJ is rooted in respect for their upholding the Vincentian mission. To me that was best exemplified when Rob Thomas was honored on Senior Day with his diploma, even though one of his knees had gone through what trainers called the worst knee injury they had ever seen and he could no longer play competitive basketball. We sure could have used his scholly for someone else.
The passage from the gospel of Mark (8:36) may say it best

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Not having an organized religion of my own lets me take things from all of them.


Good points fuchsia but Rob didn’t finish on an athletic scholarship. In situations like Rob’ s where it is determined a player is no longer able to since he was no longer able to play, they were allowed to change the athletic schollie to another type of scholarship. The fact that they honored it and continued to provide the support (i.e. study hall and other things) he had while on the team is a testament to what you are posting about
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