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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398034

  • RedStormNC
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2021 US News & World Report released the new rankings

St. John's came in at #170 (improved from #179 last year) in the national university category.

St. John's: www.usnews.com/best-colleges/st-johns-university-new-york-2823

Full rankings here:
www.usnews.com/best-colleges

"Changes to the rankings methodology this year include the introduction of two outcome measures pertaining to graduate indebtedness, for a total of 17 factors. To make room, we gave less weight in the rankings to SAT/ACT scores, high school class standing and alumni giving rates. "

"This year's edition includes several updates to the Best Colleges methodology that address important issues directly impacting students and their families. These new measures look at timely topics such as student debt, social mobility, and test-blind admissions policies. In this edition, U.S. News:

Added two ranking indicators measuring student debt. Affordability is often a primary concern for college applicants, as student loan debt can have long-lasting impacts. To provide more data in this area, U.S. News added two new ranking indicators: 1) the average amount of accumulated federal loan debt among full-time undergraduate borrowers at graduation, and 2) the percentage of full-time undergraduates in a graduating class who borrowed federal loans.
Increased the weight of outcome measures. Resulting from the new graduate indebtedness indicators, outcomes – which also include graduation and retention rates, and social mobility – now account for 40% of the Best Colleges methodology, up from 35% last year. The weights for SAT and ACT scores, high school class standing and alumni giving were reduced.
New weights and indicators applied to Historically Black Colleges and Universities ranking: For the 2021 HBCU ranking, U.S. News also applied the changes made to the overall rankings, including adding the two graduate indebtedness indicators and reducing the weights for student excellence and alumni giving.
Ranked test-blind schools. Schools that do not make use of SAT or ACT scores in their admissions process are now included in the rankings, having previously been listed as unranked. While schools still widely accept SAT and ACT scores from applicants, a number of schools have either temporarily or indefinitely discontinued accepting these scores."
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398176

  • BrookJersey Redmen
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I don't know about anyone else, but this seems good to me. Just saying "national" university sounds good.
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398224

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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398244

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I don't see this as a positive at all. There are some decent nuggets, but a 170 national rank is disappointing. After all these years of trying to improve the school's standing and reputation, our ranking hasn't materially changed at all. We are not even close to the ranking you would hope us to be. We are just above median among national universities. Fordham is ranked 66th. Yeshiva 76th. Stony Brook 88th. Seton Hall 133rd. Hofstra 160th.

We are tied with Adelphi at 170. Why wouldn't we be at least within 100 spots of Fordham? The academic reputation of St. John's is subpar and the administration and the Board just never seems to care. Under Harrington they didn't even acknowledge this and would lie about how great a reputation we have, so at least now there is some acknowledgement and truthfulness,and I believe some effort to improve things. But we haven't done nearly enough and the results remain poor. Class sizes are too large, admissions standards are too lax, and the majority of our students who are top notch suffer from the institutional lethargy regarding our reputation.
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398249

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Proud Alumn wrote: I don't see this as a positive at all. There are some decent nuggets, but a 170 national rank is disappointing. After all these years of trying to improve the school's standing and reputation, our ranking hasn't materially changed at all. We are not even close to the ranking you would hope us to be. We are just above median among national universities. Fordham is ranked 66th. Yeshiva 76th. Stony Brook 88th. Seton Hall 133rd. Hofstra 160th.

We are tied with Adelphi at 170. Why wouldn't we be at least within 100 spots of Fordham? The academic reputation of St. John's is subpar and the administration and the Board just never seems to care. Under Harrington they didn't even acknowledge this and would lie about how great a reputation we have, so at least now there is some acknowledgement and truthfulness,and I believe some effort to improve things. But we haven't done nearly enough and the results remain poor. Class sizes are too large, admissions standards are too lax, and the majority of our students who are top notch suffer from the institutional lethargy regarding our reputation.


Some of the grad programs remain strong, but undergrad is a different story. We focus on quotas instead of the best students. That's why this is happening. Diversity is great, but the problem comes when you prioritize that over actual academic standards. That's what appears to be happening here. At Marist, students mostly took their academics seriously and it was "cool" if you were a good student or tops among your HS class. At SJ I just don't see it. Obviously I'm not in undergrad students' minds, but it just seems to be "get my degree just getting by and go home" type attitude. Many of the undergrads at SJ come from families where they are the 1st to attend college. This is not the case at more competitive schools. Tough balance, but we have to do better and we can do better.
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398255

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Proud Alumn wrote: I don't see this as a positive at all. There are some decent nuggets, but a 170 national rank is disappointing. After all these years of trying to improve the school's standing and reputation, our ranking hasn't materially changed at all. We are not even close to the ranking you would hope us to be. We are just above median among national universities. Fordham is ranked 66th. Yeshiva 76th. Stony Brook 88th. Seton Hall 133rd. Hofstra 160th.

We are tied with Adelphi at 170. Why wouldn't we be at least within 100 spots of Fordham? The academic reputation of St. John's is subpar and the administration and the Board just never seems to care. Under Harrington they didn't even acknowledge this and would lie about how great a reputation we have, so at least now there is some acknowledgement and truthfulness,and I believe some effort to improve things. But we haven't done nearly enough and the results remain poor. Class sizes are too large, admissions standards are too lax, and the majority of our students who are top notch suffer from the institutional lethargy regarding our reputation.


Obviously you would like SJU to be more selective academically in order to raise its ranking. If we became more selective we would have to deny admission to large numbers of underprivileged applicants, which would be counter to our mission to help educate poorer students. If we shrunk the size of classes and students admitted, we'd have to lay off hundreds of teachers and administrators to make up for the shortfall. I don't think our top students suffer much at all by less academically qualified peers. JSJ is on the board of Tobin school of business and is more qualified to speak to this.

There has never been a movement such as the one Northeastern engaged in, to raise the academic ranking of the school. We do have the extremely academically College of Allied Health Professions, which is very competitive to get into. Our law school attracts top students from all over the country.

In short, I think if this was an objective, to become a top 50 school, it could be achieved over the course of 15 years or so. I don't think that was ever the end goal.
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398262

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Beast of the East wrote:

Proud Alumn wrote: I don't see this as a positive at all. There are some decent nuggets, but a 170 national rank is disappointing. After all these years of trying to improve the school's standing and reputation, our ranking hasn't materially changed at all. We are not even close to the ranking you would hope us to be. We are just above median among national universities. Fordham is ranked 66th. Yeshiva 76th. Stony Brook 88th. Seton Hall 133rd. Hofstra 160th.

We are tied with Adelphi at 170. Why wouldn't we be at least within 100 spots of Fordham? The academic reputation of St. John's is subpar and the administration and the Board just never seems to care. Under Harrington they didn't even acknowledge this and would lie about how great a reputation we have, so at least now there is some acknowledgement and truthfulness,and I believe some effort to improve things. But we haven't done nearly enough and the results remain poor. Class sizes are too large, admissions standards are too lax, and the majority of our students who are top notch suffer from the institutional lethargy regarding our reputation.


Obviously you would like SJU to be more selective academically in order to raise its ranking. If we became more selective we would have to deny admission to large numbers of underprivileged applicants, which would be counter to our mission to help educate poorer students. If we shrunk the size of classes and students admitted, we'd have to lay off hundreds of teachers and administrators to make up for the shortfall. I don't think our top students suffer much at all by less academically qualified peers. JSJ is on the board of Tobin school of business and is more qualified to speak to this.

There has never been a movement such as the one Northeastern engaged in, to raise the academic ranking of the school. We do have the extremely academically College of Allied Health Professions, which is very competitive to get into. Our law school attracts top students from all over the country.

In short, I think if this was an objective, to become a top 50 school, it could be achieved over the course of 15 years or so. I don't think that was ever the end goal.


Our mission is sorely outdated and should not be used as a crutch to accept low academic standards. And we can stay true to our mission and have higher selectivity if we focus on the right things. Foremost should be minimum academic achievement regardless of income level. If someone cannot average a B in high school, meaning they probably are in the bottom 1/3rd of their high school class with other students in similar socio-economic levels, then they shouldn't be admitted to St. John's because the school thinks it needs more low income students. Not too long ago, SJU had approximately 20% of its entering class with BELOW-B high-school grades.

Yes, SJU should downsize, including reducing faculty and staff. We should merge duplicative programs (e.g. business programs in the CPS should be eliminated and staff combined with Tobin) and cut back areas that don't attract higher grade students. We should also consider getting rid of the Staten Island campus. The school is bloated and right-sizing it will greatly help its reputation will still staying true to its mission to help the underprivileged.
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398264

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Proud Alumn wrote: I don't see this as a positive at all. There are some decent nuggets, but a 170 national rank is disappointing. After all these years of trying to improve the school's standing and reputation, our ranking hasn't materially changed at all. We are not even close to the ranking you would hope us to be. We are just above median among national universities. Fordham is ranked 66th. Yeshiva 76th. Stony Brook 88th. Seton Hall 133rd. Hofstra 160th.

We are tied with Adelphi at 170. Why wouldn't we be at least within 100 spots of Fordham? The academic reputation of St. John's is subpar and the administration and the Board just never seems to care. Under Harrington they didn't even acknowledge this and would lie about how great a reputation we have, so at least now there is some acknowledgement and truthfulness,and I believe some effort to improve things. But we haven't done nearly enough and the results remain poor. Class sizes are too large, admissions standards are too lax, and the majority of our students who are top notch suffer from the institutional lethargy regarding our reputation.


Time to change your name ;)
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398268

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Proud Alumn wrote: I don't see this as a positive at all. There are some decent nuggets, but a 170 national rank is disappointing. After all these years of trying to improve the school's standing and reputation, our ranking hasn't materially changed at all. We are not even close to the ranking you would hope us to be. We are just above median among national universities. Fordham is ranked 66th. Yeshiva 76th. Stony Brook 88th. Seton Hall 133rd. Hofstra 160th.

We are tied with Adelphi at 170. Why wouldn't we be at least within 100 spots of Fordham? The academic reputation of St. John's is subpar and the administration and the Board just never seems to care. Under Harrington they didn't even acknowledge this and would lie about how great a reputation we have, so at least now there is some acknowledgement and truthfulness,and I believe some effort to improve things. But we haven't done nearly enough and the results remain poor. Class sizes are too large, admissions standards are too lax, and the majority of our students who are top notch suffer from the institutional lethargy regarding our reputation.


in order for SJU to make any significant jump in standing, they'll need to focus on research (which i think is close to zero) and substantive contribution to the major fields of study (pharmacy, law, marketing & communications, business, etc).

st. john's gets by on brand recognition. i honestly still can't believe the brand is as strong as it is....
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2021 US News Collegs Rankings 2 months 1 week ago #398284

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St. John's University (NY) Ranking Factors

St. John's University (NY) is ranked #170 in National Universities. Schools are ranked according to their performance across a set of widely accepted indicators of excellence. Read more about how we rank schools.

U.S. News Overall Score

Score (out of 100)
52

Outcomes (40%)

Outcomes rank
173

Graduation and retention rank
209

Average 6-year graduation rate (17.6%)
60%

Average first-year student retention rate (4.4%)
84%

Social Mobility Rank
39

6-year graduation rate of students who received a Pell Grant (2.5%)
57%

6-year graduation rate of students who did not receive a Pell Grant (2.5%)
67%

Predicted graduation rate (8%)
54%

Overperformance(+)/Underperformance(-)
9

Graduate indebtedness rank
265

Graduating students who borrowed (federal loans, 2019) (2%)
67%

Average federal indebtedness of 2019 graduating class (3%)
$24,481


Expert Opinion (20%)

Peer assessment score (out of 5)
2.8


Faculty Resources (20%)

Faculty resources rank
198

Faculty compensation rank (7%)
182

Percent of faculty who are full-time (1%)
69.4%

Full-time faculty with Ph.D or terminal degree (3%)
94%

Class Size Index (8%)

Classes with fewer than 20 students
33.4%

Classes with 50 or more students
4%

Student-faculty ratio (1%)
16:1

Financial Resources (10%)

Financial resources rank
245

Student Excellence (7%)

Student excellence rank
167

SAT/ACT 25th-75th percentile (5%)

1080-1300

First-year students in top 10% of high school class (2%)
21%


Alumni Giving (3%)

Alumni giving rank
254

Average alumni giving rate
4.3%
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