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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434902

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Knight post=434882 wrote:

SJ_NYC post=434879 wrote:

Delaware post=434878 wrote: I'll certainly take the win, but 2 for 15 with RISP? And Montgomery can't get out of the first inning with 2 outs? This happens to Yankees pitchers all the time. Stanton sucks.


I believe it is only six more years of Stanton. :-)


 


Thank you Mr. Cashman.


Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  
Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 
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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434903

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Moose post=434902 wrote:

Knight post=434882 wrote:

SJ_NYC post=434879 wrote:

Delaware post=434878 wrote: I'll certainly take the win, but 2 for 15 with RISP? And Montgomery can't get out of the first inning with 2 outs? This happens to Yankees pitchers all the time. Stanton sucks.


I believe it is only six more years of Stanton. :-)



 


Thank you Mr. Cashman.


Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  
Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 

That is simply NOT true that nobody had an issue with acquiring Stanton. At the time I wanted them to go after Yelich (who can play the field) rather than getting saddled with yet another Alex Rodriguez contract for a designated hitter.
 

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434904

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Moose post=434902 wrote:

Knight post=434882 wrote:

SJ_NYC post=434879 wrote:

Delaware post=434878 wrote: I'll certainly take the win, but 2 for 15 with RISP? And Montgomery can't get out of the first inning with 2 outs? This happens to Yankees pitchers all the time. Stanton sucks.


I believe it is only six more years of Stanton. :-)



 


Thank you Mr. Cashman.


Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  
Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 



You must not have been paying attention. We traded an overpaid 2nd baseman with a long contract for a home run hitting DH with a longer term contract. Bad deal at the time. A piece that we did not need.

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434905

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Ron post=434903 wrote:

Moose post=434902 wrote:

Knight post=434882 wrote:

SJ_NYC post=434879 wrote:

Delaware post=434878 wrote: I'll certainly take the win, but 2 for 15 with RISP? And Montgomery can't get out of the first inning with 2 outs? This happens to Yankees pitchers all the time. Stanton sucks.


I believe it is only six more years of Stanton. :-)




 


Thank you Mr. Cashman.


Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  
Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 

That is simply NOT true that nobody had an issue with acquiring Stanton. At the time I wanted them to go after Yelich (who can play the field) rather than getting saddled with yet another Alex Rodriguez contract for a designated hitter.

 


Sure if you want to say that I can't stop you but you cannot dispute it was overwhelmingly in the Yankees corner.  The NL MVP for Starlin Castro and 2 bags of balls.  Yelich was traded a month later for a MUCH better package.  

Now speaking of Yelich.  First two year in MIL he was MVP type player.  Last 2 years he's actually been a train wreck and you can say worse than Stanton.  He signed a 9 year contract in March of 2020 being they are only 1-2 years apart looks like they both better turn it around.

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434906

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Moose post=434902 wrote:

Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  

Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 


Stanton's weighted average OPS+ (the best way to compare hitters between eras and year to year), comparing his MIA years to his Yankee years has dropped from 151 vs. 130, that's a 14% drop; that's a lot. This year he's at 121. (For those that don't know, a 100 OPS+ is league average, and it is adjusted each year).  So this year he's 20% better at the plate vs an average league hitter and he's making $29mm.

He can't play the outfield anymore, at all...  This is when should be in his prime years and at his best, but he's already declining. You can't say he's the same.  It's panic time with regard to his outlook for this year, and the upcoming years.

I also don't know that you can say that unequivocally that nobody had reservations at the time of the trade.  I had reservations on the length of the contract.  Maybe I didn't state it on this website, but I definitely had doubts about the contract length.  After waiting for seemingly an eternity for the Giamibi and Teixeria contracts to end, I am always skeptical of long contracts given to lumbering big baseball players.  Judge will be next. They don't seem to hold their value well.
 
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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434908

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Knight post=434904 wrote:

Moose post=434902 wrote:

Knight post=434882 wrote:

SJ_NYC post=434879 wrote:

Delaware post=434878 wrote: I'll certainly take the win, but 2 for 15 with RISP? And Montgomery can't get out of the first inning with 2 outs? This happens to Yankees pitchers all the time. Stanton sucks.


I believe it is only six more years of Stanton. :-)




 


Thank you Mr. Cashman.


Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  
Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 



You must not have been paying attention. We traded an overpaid 2nd baseman with a long contract for a home run hitting DH with a longer term contract. Bad deal at the time. A piece that we did not need.


Find me the articles from December of 2017 saying it was a bad deal.  You should have plenty of time since you don't watch games anymore.  Sure people predicted the last few years of the contract would be ugly.  Price you pay for trying to win leading up to that.

I shouldn't be surprised because of the SJU connection but some of you Yankee fans on here are the whiniest fans I've ever encountered in my life.  It's like Jerome from Manhattan times 50.  If someone woke from a 20 year coma and read this thread you would think they have had 1 winning season in 20 years.

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434910

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SJ_NYC post=434906 wrote:

Moose post=434902 wrote:

Nobody.  I repeat NOBODY had any issue with Cashman getting Stanton.  

Otani wanted to play on the west coast and Cashman traded practically nothing to MIA for Stanton coming off an NL MVP.
Revisionist history if anyone claims otherwise.  

Stanton's average in his 8 years in Miami 268
Stanton's average in his 4 years in New York 264

He's exactly the same.  Just hurt a lot more 


Stanton's weighted average OPS+ (the best way to compare hitters between eras and year to year), comparing his MIA years to his Yankee years has dropped from 151 vs. 130, that's a 14% drop; that's a lot. This year he's at 121. (For those that don't know, a 100 OPS+ is league average, and it is adjusted each year).  So this year he's 20% better at the plate vs an average league hitter and he's making $29mm.

He can't play the outfield anymore, at all...  This is when should be in his prime years and at his best, but he's already declining. You can't say he's the same.  It's panic time with regard to his outlook for this year, and the upcoming years.

I also don't know that you can say that unequivocally that nobody had reservations at the time of the trade.  I had reservations on the length of the contract.  Maybe I didn't state it on this website, but I definitely had doubts about the contract length.  After waiting for seemingly an eternity for the Giamibi and Teixeria contracts to end, I am always skeptical of long contracts given to lumbering big baseball players.  Judge will be next. They don't seem to hold their value well.

 


Thanks for the exotic stats. Personally I'm not big on the new age stats but you clearly spelled them out.  The value doesn't match no question but that is pretty much the case with any contract that is signed.  Its a cat and mouse game.  Unless you build a team and dump when its payday you are likely going to overpay most of the time.  It's why teams are locking up players earlier.  Paying them for this 'earlier prime' than most us fans I think are used to.  Sometimes it works out.  Sometimes it doesn't like Phillies giving Scott Kingery a long term deal and in 2 years he's cut.

He's not the same.  He's breaking down.  It's not my money.  They will get rid of him if they have to either by strong arming him into a trade and eating salary or cutting him ala Ellsbury.

Everyone wanted Otani and it was shocking when he said no thanks.  After 4 years of wins in the 80's and one at 91 they wanted to make a splash and they did at the cost of nothing.  It was like a free agent deal.  First two years it 'worked out'.  Last year let's all ignore as it was a sham.  This year so far not good.

*And no I'm not related to Brian Cashman just getting that out there.

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434911

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Moose post=434910 wrote: Thanks for the exotic stats. Personally I'm not big on the new age stats but you clearly spelled them out.  The value doesn't match no question but that is pretty much the case with any contract that is signed.  Its a cat and mouse game.  Unless you build a team and dump when its payday you are likely going to overpay most of the time.  It's why teams are locking up players earlier.  Paying them for this 'earlier prime' than most us fans I think are used to.  Sometimes it works out.  Sometimes it doesn't like Phillies giving Scott Kingery a long term deal and in 2 years he's cut.

He's not the same.  He's breaking down.  It's not my money.  They will get rid of him if they have to either by strong arming him into a trade and eating salary or cutting him ala Ellsbury.

Everyone wanted Otani and it was shocking when he said no thanks.  After 4 years of wins in the 80's and one at 91 they wanted to make a splash and they did at the cost of nothing.  It was like a free agent deal.  First two years it 'worked out'.  Last year let's all ignore as it was a sham.  This year so far not good.

*And no I'm not related to Brian Cashman just getting that out there.

Ellsbury...or Pavno - which was worse? From the perspective of being a fan, both were the worst contracts in memory. Both players seemingly had unbelievably bad faith efforts to get back on the field.

I agree on the Otani disappointment.  That was a shocker.   And I can see why Cashman went for Stanton, but man, it's hurting now.  Because the opportunity cost of having huge dollars locked up in a seemingly unproductive Stanton is going to be killer. I was just hoping that unproductive phase would start three years from now... and not seemingly accelerated to the current years.

Unfortunately GM's fates are decided on contracts like Stanton's, and Cashman may have sealed his own fate if they don't make a deep run into the playoffs.

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434912

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SJ_NYC post=434911 wrote:

Moose post=434910 wrote: Thanks for the exotic stats. Personally I'm not big on the new age stats but you clearly spelled them out.  The value doesn't match no question but that is pretty much the case with any contract that is signed.  Its a cat and mouse game.  Unless you build a team and dump when its payday you are likely going to overpay most of the time.  It's why teams are locking up players earlier.  Paying them for this 'earlier prime' than most us fans I think are used to.  Sometimes it works out.  Sometimes it doesn't like Phillies giving Scott Kingery a long term deal and in 2 years he's cut.

He's not the same.  He's breaking down.  It's not my money.  They will get rid of him if they have to either by strong arming him into a trade and eating salary or cutting him ala Ellsbury.

Everyone wanted Otani and it was shocking when he said no thanks.  After 4 years of wins in the 80's and one at 91 they wanted to make a splash and they did at the cost of nothing.  It was like a free agent deal.  First two years it 'worked out'.  Last year let's all ignore as it was a sham.  This year so far not good.

*And no I'm not related to Brian Cashman just getting that out there.

Ellsbury...or Pavno - which was worse? From the perspective of being a fan, both were the worst contracts in memory. Both players seemingly had unbelievably bad faith efforts to get back on the field.

I agree on the Otani disappointment.  That was a shocker.   And I can see why Cashman went for Stanton, but man, it's hurting now.  Because the opportunity cost of having huge dollars locked up in a seemingly unproductive Stanton is going to be killer. I was just hoping that unproductive phase would start three years from now... and not seemingly accelerated to the current years.

Unfortunately GM's fates are decided on contracts like Stanton's, and Cashman may have sealed his own fate if they don't make a deep run into the playoffs.


Good question.  I'd say Ellsbury was worse but personally I never wanted him. Throw Igawa in there too.  Any FA deal when George was alive I can't fault Cashman.  He was getting marching orders a lot.  But since then he's definitely had some big misses.  I HATE the Hicks contract from the day it was signed.

One thing nobody has mentioned on Stanton.  The last 3 years of Stanton's deal the Marlins are paying $10M each year.  That brings his salary down to 19M, 15M and 15M.  Lipstick on a pig some might say but when you factor in inflation those numbers might be similar to what Gardner was getting last year.

I still say only chance Cashman is fired is if they miss playoffs and even then I don't think its guarantee.  I think he would get a chance to rebound after a missed year.

*BTW thanks to those on this thread for waking up Stanton tonight 

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NY YANKEES - 2021 4 months 1 week ago #434913

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Boy I could only imagine what this thread would be like if you were Pirates fans :) 
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