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TOPIC: Do we really need a center?

Do we really need a center? 1 week 4 days ago #288080

  • Class of 72
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Until we hear from the NCAA regarding his waiver I think we need a back up to Keita.
It's one thing for Mullin to have all the pieces next season with Heron, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa etc. but let's see if he can mold them them into a "team" and play defense.
If he can't do that with these players he never will.

At St. John's nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

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At St. John's nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Do we really need a center? 1 week 4 days ago #288081

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Class of 72 wrote: Until we hear from the NCAA regarding his waiver I think we need a back up to Keita.
It's one thing for Mullin to have all the pieces next season with Heron, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa etc. but let's see if he can mold them them into a "team" and play defense.
If he can't do that with these players he never will.

How are we going to get a backup to Keita at this stage of the game, w no scholies left?

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Do we really need a center? 1 week 4 days ago #288082

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richard A Steinfeld wrote:

Class of 72 wrote: Until we hear from the NCAA regarding his waiver I think we need a back up to Keita.
It's one thing for Mullin to have all the pieces next season with Heron, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa etc. but let's see if he can mold them them into a "team" and play defense.
If he can't do that with these players he never will.

How are we going to get a backup to Keita at this stage of the game, w no scholies left?

They won’t

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Do we really need a center? 1 week 4 days ago #288083

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Paultzman wrote:

richard A Steinfeld wrote:

Class of 72 wrote: Until we hear from the NCAA regarding his waiver I think we need a back up to Keita.
It's one thing for Mullin to have all the pieces next season with Heron, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa etc. but let's see if he can mold them them into a "team" and play defense.
If he can't do that with these players he never will.

How are we going to get a backup to Keita at this stage of the game, w no scholies left?

They won’t

You never know . Maybe there is an Andre Drummond type player out there who will walk on :) It doesn’t cost any money to dream.

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Last edit: by richard A Steinfeld.

Do we really need a center? 1 week 3 days ago #288092

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richard A Steinfeld wrote:

Class of 72 wrote: Until we hear from the NCAA regarding his waiver I think we need a back up to Keita.
It's one thing for Mullin to have all the pieces next season with Heron, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa etc. but let's see if he can mold them them into a "team" and play defense.
If he can't do that with these players he never will.

How are we going to get a backup to Keita at this stage of the game, w no scholies left?


We are St. John's! We don’t need no stinkin' scholies as long as we have a player to sacrifice.

[/quote]

At St. John's nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

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At St. John's nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Do we really need a center? 1 week 3 days ago #288093

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In my opinion, a month ago, this roster had a huge whole and the off-season was a huuuuge fail. I felt strongly the only thing that could remedy the disaster was a BE-ready big man. What I didn't consider, was landing a 5-star talent like Heron. Heron could mitigate the big man void, but no one knows if he will be eligible. As far as the newbies go, it is more likely that they will not be high impact players in their first BE season.

From a philosophical stand point, the devaluing of big bodies drives me nuts. I am tired of being out-rebounded and pushed around in the paint. I am patiently awaiting word on the hardship waiver. But, in response to the thread's title......yes, every teams needs muscle.
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Do we really need a center? 1 week 3 days ago #288123

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Muscle, but not necessarily a center. Last year our only true muscle was Clark and Bashir, both forwards.
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Do we really need a center? 1 week 3 days ago #288124

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You also need height for low post defense against talented tall bigs. If we ask Clark to primarily defend those guys, he will spend more time on the bench in foul trouble than on the court. This is where Ketia has to come in. There may be games where based on other teams personnel we can get by with Clark playing the five, but there will be games where that won't work.
I know it's an extreme example, but we would never have beaten Duke last year w/o the 6'11 Owens to defend against the twin towers Bagley and Carter for 37 minutes. Clark played only 21 minutes and fouled out in that game. I think we can get by with one true center, but we do need that one guy to play big minutes against the teams that have offensively talented and tall bigs.
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Do we really need a center? 1 week 3 days ago #288129

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We obviously are talking about two drastically different teams with or without Heron. I put the players next to each other. You can debate who will start and who will be the first guys off the bench will be but what stands out is that we are replacing Ahmed and Owens with Keita and Figueroa. I will let others pass judgment on this exchange but we need to hope it is at least as effective. Our bench now adds forwards Williams and Earlingon instead of Amar and Keita when he was allowed to play which has to be an upgrade but how much remains to be seen. The big upgrade is at guard with Dixon and Williams. This season the team starts without Lovett which will help and it played competitively without him most of the time so I definitely see an improvement particularly with the softer schedule and a likely weaker conference. This could be an NCAA team but I wouldn't bet the house on it. Now when you add Heron who is a proven star and will be one of the best players in the conference. Besides the numbers he gives you there is every reason to believe that he will make all of the other players on the team better including Keita and the reserves. Now Dixon and Figueroa stand out as the start of a strong bench and there is a lot less pressure on the other guys.

I saw Keita play 3 minutes in the elite eight game at the Garden and while that clearly is not enough time to make any real evaluation, he looked like an athletic big that should fit in quite nicely, particularly on the team in the last column where we mostly need him to rebound and make a few dunks and layups. The team with Heron should make the NCAA's and could be a tough out in the early rounds if thinks gel. I agree with the poster who said we need to get something out of Williams even if its a few minutes a game.

As for the center debate, of course we would be a better team in either scenario with a solid fifth year guy that can play a little but most teams hoping to make the NCAA's have flaws.
Ponds Ponds Ponds
Simon Simon Simon
Clark Clark Clark
Ahmed Figueroa Heron
Owens Keita Keita

Trimble Trimble Trimble
Amar Roberts Roberts
Keita Earlington Earlington
Dixon Dixon
Williams Williams
Figueroa

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Last edit: by Andrew.

Do we really need a center? 1 week 3 days ago #288133

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NCJohnnie wrote: You also need height for low post defense against talented tall bigs. If we ask Clark to primarily defend those guys, he will spend more time on the bench in foul trouble than on the court. This is where Ketia has to come in. There may be games where based on other teams personnel we can get by with Clark playing the five, but there will be games where that won't work.
I know it's an extreme example, but we would never have beaten Duke last year w/o the 6'11 Owens to defend against the twin towers Bagley and Carter for 37 minutes. Clark played only 21 minutes and fouled out in that game. I think we can get by with one true center, but we do need that one guy to play big minutes against the teams that have offensively talented and tall bigs.

Keata is a lot stronger than Owens and I don’t think he will be insisting on being the focal point of our offense. IMO he will help us more as an inside presence and being able to guard opponents Centers. That said, it would have been nice if Owens stayed.
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