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Roster 3 months 3 days ago #284842

  • REB
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Room112 wrote:

IDRAFT wrote: I post this at the risk of being repetitive. I am trying a different approach, looking at potential minutes. Last time I try to suggest the roster isn't a mess, I promise, well, until the games start.

Understanding that we haven't seen many of these players yet I propose the following as a conservative estimate of average minute distribution for next year. Keep in mind it is all based on Ponds return, which seems to be the staffs assumption too.

Ponds - 33
Simon - 33
Clark - 30
Keita - 25
Dixon - 20
Figeruoa - 20
Trimble - 15
Williams - 15
Remaining Roster - 9

Those numbers add. I took the minutes for our best two players down from last year since we played with such a short roster. I took Clark down a minute. Keita would only play a little over half a game, Dixon and Figerora only half. Trimble would play two less minutes a game as a sophmore. Williams, a higher rated player, would play two less minutes a game than Trimble was needed for last year (and a lot of that was in Big East play due to Lovett's "injury".)

Now I am on board that if we can find someone big, strong and talented to play the other nine minutes that would be grand. It is also easy to see why it is a tough sell, and why Owens took off. I still can't see how we could have gotten a committ from a starting player level big and also Figeruoa. Kids, especially immediately eligible players, would want minutes, no? A guy like Yakwe would fit what SJU needs and he transferred out as 12 minutes a game was not enough for him. I don't even think we have that available for him this year.

It's not that I do not think that size was a problem last year. It should be a weakness again. It's that most teams have strengths and weaknesses, the key is not to have too many of them. Our outside shooting was brutal last year. The idea that plugging in anyone with size will setup an inside/outside game is one way to free an outside shooter.. Another way is when a guard slashes and kicks out. We have two guards Ponds and Simon, that are excellent at that, which had as much to do with Clark leading the team in 3 Pt Percentage as anything else. If we added two more guys who can catch and shoot, and that's the big if, it will be a big deal.

I think there will certainly be games that we get abused inside and lose. It looks like the biggest issue. But I'm hopeful we will lose less games because nobody on the floor can hit an outside shot and we lost plenty of those last year too.

If Figueroa is bad the argument that we blew it by not using those minutes on a big is valid. If he does well it is only valid if his production isn't needed. You only get to play five guys at a time.


Thanks for putting this together. I had just asked about it anothet thrread before seeing this. I've been one who's been on record saying we are not a popular destination for a grad big because we don't have the minutes to offer, well you proved it.

Plus something we all don't even realize is what was promised to these kids to even get them to agree to come here. Did we promise Figeroa a starting job and 20+ mins? Did we promise Keita 25+ mins? If we did, then can't go against our word.

Your analysis is helpful. I just disagree with you conclusion although the staff apparently does not. I think that is a blind spot that does us in every year when we lack depth in the paint and get abused by otherwise weaker teams - see DePaul, Georgetown, Providence etc. Your accounting of minutes only includes 25 minutes for a true low post presence. The other 15 we are naked, and many BE teams have two bigs that can play together and dominate us. If Keita has a tendency to foul trouble we could be screwed in multiple games again vs otherwise weaker opponents and pile up-Conference losses we can’t afford if we want to get to the dance.
Re the lack of minutes available for a solid grad transfer, say the player from UMASS, there’s no reason you can’t take 10 minutes from Trimble and Williams (whoever is more ready to go gets the minutes) and all of the rest of the minutes. Freshmen on teams like Villanova, Xavier, etc often sit a lot and get worked in as they mature. And they’re very happy when they get to go to the dance every year and compete for a championship, even though they have to wait their turn to play. None of the guys at the end of our lineup are 5 or even solid 4-star players so there should be no expectation of big minutes as freshman. And if Williams turns out to be a true 4-star guard and deserves more time he should get Trimble’s minutes. Next year without Ponds, Clark and probably Simon and a grad transfer if we got one this year they’ll be plenty of minutes for all. That the staff doesn’t seem to agree with this and isn’t going to pursue excellent options like the kid from UMASS blows my mind and makes me doubt that SJU will ever become a consistently effective BE program while led by this staff. I’m a big big fan of Chris Mullin as a player and a human being but his philosophy for the team leads me to believe that we will all continue to be disappointed as we have been now for so many years with only a few years as exceptions.
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Roster 3 months 3 days ago #284861

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I keep hearing some posters talking about "minutes". I have a hard time believing anyone is being "guaranteed" specific minutes or comes in with expectation of minutes. I would think in recruiting you are laying out how you would like to use players (also make them better) and that it is up to the player to "earn" time. I don't care who you are recruiting. The team is a competitive environment and the players who deserve to play are going to play. I would think any winning coach is going to steer clear of guarantees. Good player don't really give a crap because they know they are good and are going to play.
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Roster 3 months 3 days ago #284865

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SJC88 wrote: I keep hearing some posters talking about "minutes". I have a hard time believing anyone is being "guaranteed" specific minutes or comes in with expectation of minutes. I would think in recruiting you are laying out how you would like to use players (also make them better) and that it is up to the player to "earn" time. I don't care who you are recruiting. The team is a competitive environment and the players who deserve to play are going to play. I would think any winning coach is going to steer clear of guarantees. Good player don't really give a crap because they know they are good and are going to play.

sjc88, agree totally with your post when it comes to the recruit out of high school or even the transfer who will sit and have a couple of years to play after that. However, imho the grad transfer is a different animal as they only have the one year to achieve their goal and are often transferring because they feel they were underused or misused where they were. While they may not be looking for a specific number of promised minutes, they are going to be much more focused on how prominent a role they will have in the one year they have left.
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Roster 3 months 3 days ago #284868

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REB wrote:

Room112 wrote:

IDRAFT wrote: I post this at the risk of being repetitive. I am trying a different approach, looking at potential minutes. Last time I try to suggest the roster isn't a mess, I promise, well, until the games start.

Understanding that we haven't seen many of these players yet I propose the following as a conservative estimate of average minute distribution for next year. Keep in mind it is all based on Ponds return, which seems to be the staffs assumption too.

Ponds - 33
Simon - 33
Clark - 30
Keita - 25
Dixon - 20
Figeruoa - 20
Trimble - 15
Williams - 15
Remaining Roster - 9

Those numbers add. I took the minutes for our best two players down from last year since we played with such a short roster. I took Clark down a minute. Keita would only play a little over half a game, Dixon and Figerora only half. Trimble would play two less minutes a game as a sophmore. Williams, a higher rated player, would play two less minutes a game than Trimble was needed for last year (and a lot of that was in Big East play due to Lovett's "injury".)

Now I am on board that if we can find someone big, strong and talented to play the other nine minutes that would be grand. It is also easy to see why it is a tough sell, and why Owens took off. I still can't see how we could have gotten a committ from a starting player level big and also Figeruoa. Kids, especially immediately eligible players, would want minutes, no? A guy like Yakwe would fit what SJU needs and he transferred out as 12 minutes a game was not enough for him. I don't even think we have that available for him this year.

It's not that I do not think that size was a problem last year. It should be a weakness again. It's that most teams have strengths and weaknesses, the key is not to have too many of them. Our outside shooting was brutal last year. The idea that plugging in anyone with size will setup an inside/outside game is one way to free an outside shooter.. Another way is when a guard slashes and kicks out. We have two guards Ponds and Simon, that are excellent at that, which had as much to do with Clark leading the team in 3 Pt Percentage as anything else. If we added two more guys who can catch and shoot, and that's the big if, it will be a big deal.

I think there will certainly be games that we get abused inside and lose. It looks like the biggest issue. But I'm hopeful we will lose less games because nobody on the floor can hit an outside shot and we lost plenty of those last year too.

If Figueroa is bad the argument that we blew it by not using those minutes on a big is valid. If he does well it is only valid if his production isn't needed. You only get to play five guys at a time.


Thanks for putting this together. I had just asked about it anothet thrread before seeing this. I've been one who's been on record saying we are not a popular destination for a grad big because we don't have the minutes to offer, well you proved it.

Plus something we all don't even realize is what was promised to these kids to even get them to agree to come here. Did we promise Figeroa a starting job and 20+ mins? Did we promise Keita 25+ mins? If we did, then can't go against our word.

Your analysis is helpful. I just disagree with you conclusion although the staff apparently does not. I think that is a blind spot that does us in every year when we lack depth in the paint and get abused by otherwise weaker teams - see DePaul, Georgetown, Providence etc. Your accounting of minutes only includes 25 minutes for a true low post presence. The other 15 we are naked, and many BE teams have two bigs that can play together and dominate us. If Keita has a tendency to foul trouble we could be screwed in multiple games again vs otherwise weaker opponents and pile up-Conference losses we can’t afford if we want to get to the dance.
Re the lack of minutes available for a solid grad transfer, say the player from UMASS, there’s no reason you can’t take 10 minutes from Trimble and Williams (whoever is more ready to go gets the minutes) and all of the rest of the minutes. Freshmen on teams like Villanova, Xavier, etc often sit a lot and get worked in as they mature. And they’re very happy when they get to go to the dance every year and compete for a championship, even though they have to wait their turn to play. None of the guys at the end of our lineup are 5 or even solid 4-star players so there should be no expectation of big minutes as freshman. And if Williams turns out to be a true 4-star guard and deserves more time he should get Trimble’s minutes. Next year without Ponds, Clark and probably Simon and a grad transfer if we got one this year they’ll be plenty of minutes for all. That the staff doesn’t seem to agree with this and isn’t going to pursue excellent options like the kid from UMASS blows my mind and makes me doubt that SJU will ever become a consistently effective BE program while led by this staff. I’m a big big fan of Chris Mullin as a player and a human being but his philosophy for the team leads me to believe that we will all continue to be disappointed as we have been now for so many years with only a few years as exceptions.


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Roster 3 months 3 days ago #284873

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sjc88, agree totally with your post when it comes to the recruit out of high school or even the transfer who will sit and have a couple of years to play after that. However, imho the grad transfer is a different animal as they only have the one year to achieve their goal and are often transferring because they feel they were underused or misused where they were. While they may not be looking for a specific number of promised minutes, they are going to be much more focused on how prominent a role they will have in the one year they have left.[/quote]
NC, I completely agree with you. I do think (recognize?) the Grad transfer is a special situation. I would think in adding a grad transfer the role is defined by the need of the school. In other words, we need (or needed) a "big" that role is pretty clear and defined to the potential kid that he probably would have major minutes and a major role. In my opinion, bringing in a grad transfer would not be to sit, what would be the point? In our case, it would attempt to fix a big hole (no pun intended). Hope I am making some sense here.
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Roster 2 months 4 weeks ago #285337

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Roster 2 months 4 weeks ago #285338

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It continues.
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Roster 2 months 4 weeks ago #285340

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As others have noted, I don't think its appropriate to speculate on someone's (potential) personal issues.

I think the question that is fair is that everyone works for someone. That someone is then responsible for making sure what needs to happen, happens. I would assume that CM reports to Anton Goff the AD. If needed, I would assume that he makes sure that someone has been delegated to perform/oversee whatever (recruiting?) issues need to be addressed. If this isn't happening then the school has bigger issues. It was pretty obvious that when Lavin stepped aside with his health issues someone stepped in and the assistant was put in charge. I would assume this structure still exists.

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Roster 2 months 4 weeks ago #285341

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Paultzman wrote:


Paultzman , does this possibly mean a euro big is coming??? One can only hope.

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Roster 2 months 4 weeks ago #285342

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I am only speculating but, speculation is a specialty of we who post , so here goes ... How many Grad transfer bigs were invited to the NBA Combine this year ? It’s a legit question .. For that matter , who among BE Centers , who were not grad transfers were invited ? I know Spellman of Nova was but, any others ? Govan? Delgado? I don’t think so . Point being , unless you are 7 ‘ something , the NBA isnt that excited . As for us , why continue the torture that inhabits the souls of those who bemoan our not getting a transfer Big ? Just think of Keita as that player and move on ...Potentially , we got a much better shooter in Figueroa than we had in Bashir and Owens . Neither of whom provided the Rebounding needed . Let’s see what Keita delivers before we continue the Mullin Criticism on Recruiting . It’s way overboard now , as it is ..

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