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TOPIC: NIT Bracketology - St John's In

NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 3 weeks ago #273410

  • Class of 72
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Chicago Days wrote: This is a very unpredictable team without Lovett. We have 5 talented / very talented starters but Trimble comprises the entire 'bench'. We hit a hot streak at a great time--that restored some pride.
The 2nd Marquette game brought me down-to-earth.We have little-to-zero room for an 'off' game.
I got giddy and--before Marquette this week--thought we could run-the-table in the regular BET Season.
Now, I'm hoping we can beat the Hall, doubt we can beat Butler (who trounced us away), and have no clue about 'which' Providence team shows up (or which Johnnies team, for that matter).
Maybe, I'm a reverse 'lucky' charm!
Let's go Johnnies.


I see us finishing 15-16 regular season. That is nowhere near NIT territory regardless of SOS. We would have to win 2 in the Big East tournament. I would love to be wrong but end of game fatigue will become a problem. When you factor in the erratic play of Ahmed and Owens and the complete banishment of Yakwe there may be not enough legs to finish the race.
All characters and events depicted in this post are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. 
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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 3 weeks ago #273411

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fun wrote:

NCJohnnie wrote: I don't care what the official rule is on .500 record, don't see us getting an NIT bid with a losing regular season record unless we get to BE final, in which case we might have a shot.


SOS = 11
Real time RPI = 77
NYC = #1 DMA


The only reason STJ got into the tourney with .500 records, or even 1/2 game above .500 records, in the old days was because the tourney was owned by the MIBA, of which St Johns was an owner/member and the showcase program, Manhattan, Fordham, Wagner and NYU being the others. They'll need to get to 18 wins to get on the NIT bubble. If they don't that RPI won't be 77 either and a 17 win season is a 16 win season in the selection committees eyes since they don't recognize the Molloy win.

PS when they sold out to the NCAA St Johns got $9 million ($1 mill annually for nine years) plus a % of NIT profits for 10 years.

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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 3 weeks ago #273433

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austour wrote: The only reason STJ got into the tourney with .500 records, or even 1/2 game above .500 records, in the old days was because the tourney was owned by the MIBA, of which St Johns was an owner/member and the showcase program, Manhattan, Fordham, Wagner and NYU being the others. They'll need to get to 18 wins to get on the NIT bubble. If they don't that RPI won't be 77 either and a 17 win season is a 16 win season in the selection committees eyes since they don't recognize the Molloy win.

PS when they sold out to the NCAA St Johns got $9 million ($1 mill annually for nine years) plus a % of NIT profits for 10 years.


What are you even babbling about?

Since 1960 - that's about 60 years, half as long as basketball has existed - SJ has made the NIT 15 times:

Lapchick
17-8
21-5
21-8

Lou
18-8
21-8


Mulzoff
18-9
19-11

Lou
20-7
17-11
20-13

Mahoney
14-14

Jarvis
21-13

Norm
17-16

Laviin
17-16
20-13

Three of those teams were 500-ish and one of them was in the "old days," if you consider the Mahoney years the old days. There's no pattern relevant to the NIT selection process there, there's no "the only reason STJ got into the tourney" there, and there's absolutely nothing that's relevant to the 2018 NIT selection process there.

Other than that you made some excellent points.

PS Zzzzzzzzzzz

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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 3 weeks ago #273436

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fun wrote:

austour wrote: The only reason STJ got into the tourney with .500 records, or even 1/2 game above .500 records, in the old days was because the tourney was owned by the MIBA, of which St Johns was an owner/member and the showcase program, Manhattan, Fordham, Wagner and NYU being the others. They'll need to get to 18 wins to get on the NIT bubble. If they don't that RPI won't be 77 either and a 17 win season is a 16 win season in the selection committees eyes since they don't recognize the Molloy win.

PS when they sold out to the NCAA St Johns got $9 million ($1 mill annually for nine years) plus a % of NIT profits for 10 years.


What are you even babbling about?

Since 1960 - that's about 60 years, half as long as basketball has existed - SJ has made the NIT 15 times:

Lapchick
17-8
21-5
21-8

Lou
18-8
21-8


Mulzoff
18-9
19-11

Lou
20-7
17-11
20-13

Mahoney
14-14

Jarvis
21-13

Norm
17-16

Laviin
17-16
20-13

Three of those teams were 500-ish and one of them was in the "old days," if you consider the Mahoney years the old days. There's no pattern relevant to the NIT selection process there, there's no "the only reason STJ got into the tourney" there, and there's absolutely nothing that's relevant to the 2018 NIT selection process there.

Other than that you made some excellent points.

PS Zzzzzzzzzzz


In the "modern" era St. John's had fewer NIT appearances because until the Mahoney fiasco we usually went to the Bigger Dance, the NCAA. After Jarvis, only your friend Lavin succeeded in going to multiple NCAA tourneys. Now, we are debating if we can become an NIT bubble team while fighting not to be in last place in the conference. ...again.:whistle:
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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 2 weeks ago #274429

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Class of 72 wrote:

fun wrote:

austour wrote: Lou
17-11
20-13 - Actually 15 and 13 on

Mahoney
14-14

Jarvis
21-13

Norm
17-16

Laviin
17-16
20-13

Three of those teams were 500-ish and one of them was in the "old days," if you consider the Mahoney years the old days. There's no pattern relevant to the NIT selection process there, there's no "the only reason STJ got into the tourney" there, and there's absolutely nothing that's relevant to the 2018 NIT selection process there.

Other than that you made some excellent points.

PS Zzzzzzzzzzz


In the "modern" era St. John's had fewer NIT appearances because until the Mahoney fiasco we usually went to the Bigger Dance, the NCAA. After Jarvis, only your friend Lavin succeeded in going to multiple NCAA tourneys. Now, we are debating if we can become an NIT bubble team while fighting not to be in last place in the conference. ...again.:whistle:



My history starts with the Mullin years. Since that time:

In 88/89 STJ was 15-13 on selection Sunday, Got an undeserved NIT bid and won it to finish at 20-13.

In 94/95 STJ was 14-13 on selection Sunday. Got an undeserved NIT bid. Lost to go 14-14.

In 02/03 STJ was 16-13 on selction Sunday. Got an underserved NIT bid and won it to finish 21-13 on Hatten's shoulders. This marked the last time STJ had a chance to be relevant. Firing Jarvis that year might have reversed the trend to mediocrity that has followed on to this day. Instead the auto NIT bid saved Jarvis' job. The rest is history.

So yeah, maybe I exaggerated but from the time I started caring until the sale of the NIT to the NCAA's St Johns was never denied an NIT bid in year's it did not make the dance and had a .500 or better record. That finally started happening after the sale with Norm's 16-15 06/07 team being denied an NIT bid. And that's not an exaggeration, it's a MIBA privilege that no one but St Johns had access to. That's all I'm saying. Similar STJ teams to the examples above would not make the NIT now. Teams better than those STJ teams were left at home because they weren't perceived to be able to sell MSG tix. That is no longer a consideration on NIT selection Sunday.

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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 2 weeks ago #274443

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we beat Providence next game we are in, no doubt regardless of BE tourney

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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 2 weeks ago #274462

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That's hilarious.

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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 2 weeks ago #274466

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Now that I have a keyboard let me expand on my laughing fit. If they win Saturday then lose to Marquette in the BET they will be in the bottom two in the BE. They will not make the NIT as a bottom 2 BE team with what amounts to a 15-16 record against D1 teams and an RPI in the 80s, especially since the committee made it known that how you play in the final 10 is not as important as it used to be - and that's one of the few above average accomplishments of the team this year. Even if they beat Providence they have to win at least 2 in the BET to feel confident about an NIT bid.

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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 2 weeks ago #274473

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Class of 72 wrote: A 6 man exhausted team is not going to get far in any tournament, Big East or otherwise. That ship has sailed but there is always hope.


72, I wouldn't underestimate this group. They fought to the end only to lose all of them in January.
They found a way to give us the best damn week to me since the Artest days. Norms seniors had some great wins, but they never had a week where they beat #4, then 4 days later go to #1 and win in their house. Special week.
Then last night (without Ponds.) With 4 real players to play double OT, and get the W.
That right there tells you this is a special team. You can't say this team can't do this or can't do that, and they won't allow anyone to tell them they can't.
These guys are the ultimate warriors, they won't stop because they can't stop, if they stop they know no NIT at the least.

Win the next 3, assure the NIT, and get to Friday night.
To me anything more then that next week is BUTTERS.
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NIT Bracketology - St John's In 6 months 2 weeks ago #274477

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This sport is all about the money. Everything else is a distant second. St John’s is a draw. I think they get in with one more top 50 win. They would have five wins against teams in the top 55 with two top 5 wins

They still have to pull out a win tomorrow against number 39 at a tough place to play.

PC can either suck or play like world beaters. A win depends on which PC shows up tomorrow. I hope it’s the one I watched play in Connecticut back in December
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