Ez_Uzi Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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"I believe a moral framework and morality is innate to our (and other) specie, and the question that begs us is that while we have primal emotions like fear, hate, anger, greed, lust that the specie needed to survive... why did we develop higher emotions such as love, compassion and empathy?"

Ez-Uzi, most powerful stuff I have seen in recent years were the 60 minutes pieces from the Yale Infant Behavior Lab. Powerful pictures of the true nature of us and probably available on U-tube.


Good stuff, Fuchsia. Is that (Yale Infant Behaviour Lab) the name of the project or the department?
Class of 72 Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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like Dr. Fun my quotations were meant to be sarcastic examples of the hypocrisy of religion


That is not at all what I intended.


Then my apologies.
I do agree that we have been at war with each other since the beginning whenever that was.
Ironically you chose the old testament to give examples of acts of war (pogroms) supposedly committed by the Israelites at God's command and ended your verse quites with Moses directing ethnic cleansing and genocide. I'm sure Fuchsia knew the difference between a pogram and a program.
Maybe you weren't being sarcastic for a change of pace. However using the Jewish old testament to describe "pogram" is, if not sarcastic, then it would be in your usual poor taste. From the original Russian pogroms to the Holocaust pograms most of us would relate pograms to the persecution of the Jewish people.
My using the Quran in this debate over the College of the Holy Cross conundrum regarding the use of word "crusader" and associated symbol was to show how almost anything from ancient scriptures written by human beings can be manipulated and interpreted differently depending on the writer's intentions.
Not meaning to offend anyone I personally think much, if not most, of what is written in the various "holy books" are works of fiction meant to teach an ancient and uneducated people about the wrath of God, who may or may not forgive them of their sins. Those not forgiven will go to place called hell and those forgiven will go to heaven.
Again, using the Quran, half the world will go to hell since they either don't believe in one God or believe in many Gods.
An unknown percentage of the rest of the world will also go to hell because "religious scholars" have interpreted the verses differently.
So, many, if not most Christians will be on the fence at the time of judgment because they believe in the holy Trinity.
The Jews may be better off since they are still awaiting the Messiah.
I think most of the world better get with the basic "program" i,e., Respect each other regardless of religious belief.
The 10 commandments basically covers the rest.
Class of 72 Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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"I believe a moral framework and morality is innate to our (and other) specie, and the question that begs us is that while we have primal emotions like fear, hate, anger, greed, lust that the specie needed to survive... why did we develop higher emotions such as love, compassion and empathy?"

Ez-Uzi, most powerful stuff I have seen in recent years were the 60 minutes pieces from the Yale Infant Behavior Lab. Powerful pictures of the true nature of us and probably available on U-tube.


Very interesting!
I'm sure millions have been spent on the study of human behavior but the most insightful may have come from an old Chinese farmer a few thousand years ago. A neighboring farmer's son was caught stealing fruit from his orchard. The boy's father had also stolen from him as did the grandfather. After these observations he deduced that "the apple never falls far from the tree". No matter what those Yalie infants do usually most will eventually have a similar character or similar qualities to his or her parents. ;)
fun Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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like Dr. Fun my quotations were meant to be sarcastic examples of the hypocrisy of religion


That is not at all what I intended.


Then my apologies.
I do agree that we have been at war with each other since the beginning whenever that was.
Ironically you chose the old testament to give examples of acts of war (pogroms) supposedly committed by the Israelites at God's command and ended your verse quites with Moses directing ethnic cleansing and genocide. I'm sure Fuchsia knew the difference between a pogram and a program.
Maybe you weren't being sarcastic for a change of pace. However using the Jewish old testament to describe "pogram" is, if not sarcastic, then it would be in your usual poor taste. From the original Russian pogroms to the Holocaust pograms most of us would relate pograms to the persecution of the Jewish people.


Yeah, not quite. In the first place, I cited one passage, from the book of numbers, it comprising the most ancient slaughter I could think of off the top of my head. I cited it to refute the ludicrous notion that the Crusaders invented mass murder, a past time humans have engaged in since they climbed down from the trees and at which the Crusaders were rank amateur. It's common mythology among leftists and others hard of thinking that primordial man frolicked gaily amongst the flowers in peace and harmony until corrupted by capitalism and indoor plumbing, which is complete and utter twaddle, man being the most pernicious species of vermin nature has suffered to crawl across the face of the earth, humanity being a dung heap, and history being the story of those humans stupid and vain enough to attempt its summit. Everyone has been killing everyone forever and probably most of them deserved it. The waging of war is one of the things that separates us from the animals.

In the second I don't find religious persons anymore hypocritical than I find anyone else and have no interest in exposing their alleged hypocrisies. I do not think - as do so many today that it almost qualifies as a sport - that discovering hypocrisy uncovers the worst sin, a thought crime much worse than the physical sin the alleged hypocrite warns against. On the contrary, I find that sort of cheap sophistry to be the worst sin. And despite my own conclusions regarding the nature of the universe - that it is a chaotic miasma of cheap venality and murder - I don't begrudge the religious the solace of their beliefs and neither do I hold them in contempt for them. On the contrary, mostly I envy them.

Finally, if fuchsia had the opportunity to say "... equal opportunity pogroms. They killed everybody" and avoided it on purple he should be horse whipped, because that's a great line. I don't find it particularly offensive - it's not like we're at yeshiva and at any rate pogrom doesn't have the Semitic cachet of say Holocaust - but then I have a pretty high bar when it comes to such things.
fuchsia Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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If you keep saying nice things, let alone about other people's writing, you are going to blow your chance for "Misanthrope of the Year". I heard you had a shot at retiring the trophy.
Ez_Uzi Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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My using the Quran in this debate over the College of the Holy Cross conundrum regarding the use of word "crusader" and associated symbol was to show how almost anything from ancient scriptures written by human beings can be manipulated and interpreted differently depending on the writer's intentions.

Not meaning to offend anyone I personally think much, if not most, of what is written in the various "holy books" are works of fiction meant to teach an ancient and uneducated people about the wrath of God, who may or may not forgive them of their sins. Those not forgiven will go to place called hell and those forgiven will go to heaven.
Again, using the Quran, half the world will go to hell since they either don't believe in one God or believe in many Gods.




Dear Class of 72

Actually by citing indiscriminate lines from the Quran you first suggest it is a violent religion which justifies mass murder and second that even if the words are taken out of its context the reader who interprets verses will find justification because they are mass murders in disguise, and ultimately you are implicitly justifying the mass murder perpetrated by crusaders in a long lineage of mass murder by our specie.

Perhaps it is better to understand how the Crusades changed religious relationships by looking at what actually happened. These were a series of religious wars between Christians and Muslims started by Christians to basically get back control of sacred and holy sites (that both considered sacred). The crusades started in 1096 and went on to 1291.These wars were bloody, violent and ruthless and brought Europeans major contenders for the fight for land in the Middle East. In the lands that Muslims were occupying the crusades meant the ruthless and widespread massacre of Muslims, Jews and other non-Christians ... causing a masive fracture in religious relationship that even today a faction of Muslims call the West's involvement in the Middle East a “crusade.”

Add to this your interpretation (poetic no) that half of the population is going to hell (and Christians are on the fence but Jews in slightly better place) whereas the Quran states categorically 2:62 "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah [God] and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

The issue is simply (and does not require a jaunt into Quranic misinterpretation) whether Crusaders even now evoke real animosity, sensitivity and conflict? because I am not sure if it should still ... and the other questions about religious tolerance in Holy Cross and the treatment of Muslims (evoked by the imagery of the crusades) could be a consideration?
fun Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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If you keep saying nice things, let alone about other people's writing, you are going to blow your chance for "Misanthrope of the Year". I heard you had a shot at retiring the trophy.


I said you should be horse whipped.
fuchsia Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
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Horse whipped in a sentence about purple horses is clearly literary flair and not serious. Also, some people probably like that.


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