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TOPIC: What did we expect?

What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280602

  • richard A Steinfeld
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RedStormRising2 wrote: Players will transfer every year as they should. Schools invest very little in them and it's important for players to try to monetize their value as much as possible. The difference is every other program seems to realize there will be transfers and recruit accordingly.

We seem to run players out of the program with no thought on how to replace them until it is too late.

Truth be told we only lost 2 transfers this year which isn’t bad considering the current landscape. I think the problem is we have missed on many or our primary targets. That is what causes us to scramble at the end. Certainly getting the other coaches more involved in recruiting To help Matt or getting another recruiter will help.
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What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280617

  • Logen
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Mike Zaun wrote:

RedmanMike wrote: It occurs to me that the roster churn we have experienced these part two off-seasons is becoming very common, and should be expected at all but the upper-echelon programs. In retrospect it was predictable and not at all surprising.

There is very little stability - and a premium is placed on immediate gratification and not long-term commitment and growth.

Players routinely change high schools and AAU programs multiple times. Several years ago, that would have been a red flag - today it is expected. It is standard operating procedure.

How many high schools did Lovett go to? He moved from one to the other year to year. Are we surprised that he moved on from St. John's in less than two years? He's probably making a mistake by leaving St. John's, but he's left everywhere else he's been.

Owens just transferred - for the second time. Are we at all surprised that - after he didn't find Tennessee to his liking - that he (and his dad) came to the same conclusion about St. John's? So now he'll try his luck at a third school in a third major conference. We'll see how it goes. I suspect he will have a marginal impact - and that he would have done better to stay with us. I have no idea how many high schools Owens went to, but I bet it was more than one...

We discuss the possibility of Trimble transferring. I have no idea if there is any validity to it, but none of us should be surprised if he does move on. Remember, he came to us after reneging on a commitment to Florida State.

The Euro kids were never going to be here for four years - it's a business deal for them. They are working on their game in the US until they can get picked up by a better pro team back in Europe. Mussini left after two years and the German kid after one. Neither is a surprise.

Yakwe is a different story. He came here and was loyal, but ultimately he was a mid-major player whose flaws were exposed over time. I feel badly for him and hope he catches on somewhere in the MAAC or the America East and has a great year.

We took chances on these kids - and we had to know that based on their history, many of them were not going to stick it out if they faced even a little adversity. The fact is that these kids basically act like free agents on one year contracts - if the situation they are in doesn't seem to be working out, then they go somewhere else.

So we and many other programs - even good ones - experience roster churn basically every year. It didn't used to be that way, but it is that way now. Until we improve dramatically we need to play the game, and that means taking chances on some kids who are moving on from somewhere else. When we do that, we need to realize that at some point they may choose to move on from us as well.


Agree to an extent, but I think our situation is different. Players are leaving because they don't have faith in the staff as coaches or developers and because we don't win. If you're constantly promised tomorrow but tomorrow never comes, you're going to get tired of it, especially seeing that other programs actually follow through on the hype and succeed. I think our coaches really try hard but it's crystal clear it's not working in the current configuration. It says a lot about the incompetency of a program when it's clear changes must (not possibly) be made and they are not.

Is there more roster turnover overall in hoops? Yes. Are kids acting more like free agents now? Yes. But IMO it's about our inability to coach, develop, and win...not kids just packing up and leaving just to leave. If we were a winning program in and out of the top 25 and making tourneys regularly and developing players, we would 100% not be losing all these guys. I can try as hard as I can and train my entire life to beat Usain Bolt in the 100m dash, but I will not win. Not for a lack of effort, but because I don't have his abilities. Our coaching staff just does not have the ability to win consistently, plain and simple. Yet, we keep them and sounds like no changes will be made...again.


The nonsense on this board just gets worse and worse. Please show me the program that inherited what this staff inherited and “actually follow through on the hype and succeed.” Just one, please. One program in a major conference that inherited an empty roster, had two recruiting cycles and won to the ridiculous expectations most on here have. I swear I wonder if many here have ever even seen a basketball.
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What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280637

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Pretty sure SJ was projected to be squarely on the bubble if not in the tourney this year. That was by coaches too not "crazy" posters on here. How many years does a coach need? 25? Any objective outlet admits the Mullin experiment is an utter failure thus far. Outside of 2 big upsets that were isolated, it's been a total failure.
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What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280638

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The program looks like it's in chaos. Where's the Boss?

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What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280641

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Wonder how often Mullin sits down w/ Oliva and Gemp to provide updates or if they have a clue

Maybe Goff can get in their ears indirectly.

Mullin's experience running a program comes from 1 year of Slice insight and whatever Matt A tells him

Scary
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What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280668

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Logen wrote:

Mike Zaun wrote:

RedmanMike wrote: It occurs to me that the roster churn we have experienced these part two off-seasons is becoming very common, and should be expected at all but the upper-echelon programs. In retrospect it was predictable and not at all surprising.

There is very little stability - and a premium is placed on immediate gratification and not long-term commitment and growth.

Players routinely change high schools and AAU programs multiple times. Several years ago, that would have been a red flag - today it is expected. It is standard operating procedure.

How many high schools did Lovett go to? He moved from one to the other year to year. Are we surprised that he moved on from St. John's in less than two years? He's probably making a mistake by leaving St. John's, but he's left everywhere else he's been.

Owens just transferred - for the second time. Are we at all surprised that - after he didn't find Tennessee to his liking - that he (and his dad) came to the same conclusion about St. John's? So now he'll try his luck at a third school in a third major conference. We'll see how it goes. I suspect he will have a marginal impact - and that he would have done better to stay with us. I have no idea how many high schools Owens went to, but I bet it was more than one...

We discuss the possibility of Trimble transferring. I have no idea if there is any validity to it, but none of us should be surprised if he does move on. Remember, he came to us after reneging on a commitment to Florida State.

The Euro kids were never going to be here for four years - it's a business deal for them. They are working on their game in the US until they can get picked up by a better pro team back in Europe. Mussini left after two years and the German kid after one. Neither is a surprise.

Yakwe is a different story. He came here and was loyal, but ultimately he was a mid-major player whose flaws were exposed over time. I feel badly for him and hope he catches on somewhere in the MAAC or the America East and has a great year.

We took chances on these kids - and we had to know that based on their history, many of them were not going to stick it out if they faced even a little adversity. The fact is that these kids basically act like free agents on one year contracts - if the situation they are in doesn't seem to be working out, then they go somewhere else.

So we and many other programs - even good ones - experience roster churn basically every year. It didn't used to be that way, but it is that way now. Until we improve dramatically we need to play the game, and that means taking chances on some kids who are moving on from somewhere else. When we do that, we need to realize that at some point they may choose to move on from us as well.


Agree to an extent, but I think our situation is different. Players are leaving because they don't have faith in the staff as coaches or developers and because we don't win. If you're constantly promised tomorrow but tomorrow never comes, you're going to get tired of it, especially seeing that other programs actually follow through on the hype and succeed. I think our coaches really try hard but it's crystal clear it's not working in the current configuration. It says a lot about the incompetency of a program when it's clear changes must (not possibly) be made and they are not.

Is there more roster turnover overall in hoops? Yes. Are kids acting more like free agents now? Yes. But IMO it's about our inability to coach, develop, and win...not kids just packing up and leaving just to leave. If we were a winning program in and out of the top 25 and making tourneys regularly and developing players, we would 100% not be losing all these guys. I can try as hard as I can and train my entire life to beat Usain Bolt in the 100m dash, but I will not win. Not for a lack of effort, but because I don't have his abilities. Our coaching staff just does not have the ability to win consistently, plain and simple. Yet, we keep them and sounds like no changes will be made...again.


The nonsense on this board just gets worse and worse. Please show me the program that inherited what this staff inherited and “actually follow through on the hype and succeed.” Just one, please. One program in a major conference that inherited an empty roster, had two recruiting cycles and won to the ridiculous expectations most on here have. I swear I wonder if many here have ever even seen a basketball.


Logen, I understand your position but we are not asking for miracles here. This team is one quality grad transfer big away from being very good next year and the it seems like the entire staff is not doing all they can to make that happen. That's the issue. The entire staff should be out there trying to land that guy. No one is asking for a five star one and done big to come in next season. What we are expecting, a quality grad transfer big is not an unreasonable request. There are many of these type of players out there and this staff can't bust their asses to go out and get one? They can't just leave this all up to Matt. They should all be out there trying to land a player of this nature in order to ensure the success of this team and program for next season and that is not happening.
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What did we expect? 1 week 6 days ago #280694

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Amen MG. It’s mind-boggling. The Staff—as structured—is inadequate and not lasered into the task of rebuilding the program. Most everybody sees that except, it seems, CM—which stuns me, given the guy’s work ethic as a player.
And our competitors feast on our losing record, player defections, and an unfocused and inadequate Staff.
It should not and must not be acceptable to strike out on the search for ‘one Grad Big’—given the fact that most observers see how critical that vacancy is to our hopes for next season, and most importantly—to the 2019 recruiting class.
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What did we expect? 1 week 5 days ago #280696

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ChicagoDays wrote: Amen MG. It’s mind-boggling. The Staff—as structured—is inadequate and not lasered into the task of rebuilding the program. Most everybody sees that except, it seems, CM—which stuns me, given the guy’s work ethic as a player.
And our competitors feast on our losing record, player defections, and an unfocused and inadequate Staff.
It should not and must not be acceptable to strike out on the search for ‘one Grad Big’—given the fact that most observers see how critical that vacancy is to our hopes for next season, and most importantly—to the 2019 recruiting class.

ChicagoDays - couldn't agree more. There is absolutely no excuse for the staff not getting a serviceable grad big man - from what we've read in Braziller's Post articles that is their goal; now they have to get out and do it while there are still some available. While I get that we don't have the track record to sell that some of our BE brethren have, we are clearly in no worse position than Depaul was last year. They managed to get a grad transfer who gave them 27 minutes, 14 points and 7 rebounds per game. It's not magic, just hard work. Hopefully that work is happening behind the scenes and we just aren't hearing about it yet. We'll see soon.
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What did we expect? 1 week 5 days ago #280707

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I don't see why this staff should be outworked by so many other programs.
Trying to figure the staff's coaching strengths: Recruiting? Player Development? In-Game Coaching? Media Interaction? H.O.R.S.E.?
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What did we expect? 1 week 5 days ago #280711

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Knight wrote: I don't see why this staff should be outworked by so many other programs.
Trying to figure the staff's coaching strengths: Recruiting? Player Development? In-Game Coaching? Media Interaction? H.O.R.S.E.?

HORSE:)
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