Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Villanova a Blue Blood

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278588

  • plandome4
  • plandome4's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 371
  • Thank you received: 0

jerseyshorejohnny wrote: FWIW... Keep in mind that we have a lower 6 yr grad rate and a lower retention rate (although it has been improving under Bobby and is now around 84%. It was around 77% a few years ago)

This can be traced to the fact that over 40% of our students are Pell eligible (much higher than Villanova, BC, Fordham, ND, and G'Town, to name a few) and by definition they don't come from middle/upper middle class backgrounds.

That is our mission, for better or worse.

I would guess that the median family income of a Nova student is close to $200K annually, while the median family income of a SJU student would be around $50K, at most

Makes it a lot easier to graduate in 4-5-6 years when you have the financial resources to rely on.

If I knew then what I know now I would never had gone to St. John's.
They have disregarded the rankings that most/all parents use as a baseline for schools their kids should apply to. They have gotten to a point where the only reason the best and brightest would go there is for the aid package. They wouldn't even be on their radar otherwise. According to Niche....63% acceptance....ACT 22-28 (22???)and SAT 970-1180
Schools like Adelphi laugh at us as they stare thru their rear view mirror.
I know some would say the Counselor ranking is 106 but really who looks at that. We have fallen from 145---153---165 in just the last 6-8years. And considering there wee 6 schools ranked at 165 we could easily be in the 170's come next year. Lowering Tuition to attract students while assisting on the backend end for financial reasons and a very poor ranking among peer schools is most certainly not a recipe for success.
If I knew then what I know now I would never had gone to St. John's.
PS....But I do LOVE their basketball team!

www.redmen.com/forum/redmentalk/272693-v...-a-blue-blood/reply/

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278608

  • Class of 72
  • Class of 72's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 9
  • Thank you received: 800
OK all you Villanova dads enough with the Nova bragging! The question was whether Villanova can be considered a basketball blue blood and not whether they deserve their latest U.S. News academic ranking. Personally, I am not sure how they manipulated or fudged the numbers but they are over ranked by about 30 points over better universities nationally imo. Yes, I have been to Nova many times and have had family attend but in the Big East family of schools the gold standard academically is Georgetown University. From Law school to Medical school Georgetown is an internationally renowned university on the level of Cal-Berkeley, Michigan or any of the public ivies.
As for being a basketball blue blood in very recent years they certainly can make that argument with final 4 appearances but, again, going back 20 to 30 years among the remaining Big East schools, Georgetown was there longer and has more of a national reputation. Academic status or rankings have had less than zero to do with being considered a basketball blue blood as low ranking national universities such as Kentucky, Louisville, Kansas and a few others will attest.
As JerseyShoreJohnny pointed out the Villanova demographics have a lot to do with its "reputation". It is near the top of the list for well-to-do Catholic parents. From Delaware to Long Island the vast majority are suburban white kids that attend schools in high performing school districts or private schools. It is incredibly homogeneous and located in a quiet and safe suburban setting. Parents feel safe sending their daughters there as do many Long Island parents do with Marist. As for the comparison to Boston College I would lean to BC as a more iconic Catholic campus. In fact, the College of the Holy Cross attracts ivy level Catholic students much more than Villanova could ever dream of doing. Please note that I did not mention St. John's becsuse, as my fellow Kingsman alum Brooklyn Jersey mentioned, St. John's mission is vastly different from Villanova and, imo, more noble. Many Marist and Villanova students would not attend St. John's because of its demographics alone where Caucasian students are now less than half of the student population. Finally, St. John's is located in the most ethnically diverse urban areas of the country which gives it the opportunity to cultivate a new generation of immigrants regardless of race or creed. Eventually, many of those HC, BC and Nova grads migrate to NYC where they suffer culture shock that St. John's grads easily navigate.

At St. John's nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
The following user(s) said Thank You: BrookJersey Redmen, Tom in Salem, SLYFOXX1968, Dan V

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

At St. John's nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Last Edit: by Class of 72.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278629

  • Beast of the East
  • Beast of the East's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 9030
  • Karma: 1
  • Thank you received: 385

Class of 72 wrote: OK all you Villanova dads enough with the Nova bragging! The question was whether Villanova can be considered a basketball blue blood and not whether they deserve their latest U.S. News academic ranking. Personally, I am not sure how they manipulated or fudged the numbers but they are over ranked by about 30 points over better universities nationally imo. Yes, I have been to Nova many times and have had family attend but in the Big East family of schools the gold standard academically is Georgetown University. From Law school to Medical school Georgetown is an internationally renowned university on the level of Cal-Berkeley, Michigan or any of the public ivies.
As for being a basketball blue blood in very recent years they certainly can make that argument with final 4 appearances but, again, going back 20 to 30 years among the remaining Big East schools, Georgetown was there longer and has more of a national reputation. Academic status or rankings have had less than zero to do with being considered a basketball blue blood as low ranking national universities such as Kentucky, Louisville, Kansas and a few others will attest.
As JerseyShoreJohnny pointed out the Villanova demographics have a lot to do with its "reputation". It is near the top of the list for well-to-do Catholic parents. From Delaware to Long Island the vast majority are suburban white kids that attend schools in high performing school districts or private schools. It is incredibly homogeneous and located in a quiet and safe suburban setting. Parents feel safe sending their daughters there as do many Long Island parents do with Marist. As for the comparison to Boston College I would lean to BC as a more iconic Catholic campus. In fact, the College of the Holy Cross attracts ivy level Catholic students much more than Villanova could ever dream of doing. Please note that I did not mention St. John's becsuse, as my fellow Kingsman alum Brooklyn Jersey mentioned, St. John's mission is vastly different from Villanova and, imo, more noble. Many Marist and Villanova students would not attend St. John's because of its demographics alone where Caucasian students are now less than half of the student population. Finally, St. John's is located in the most ethnically diverse urban areas of the country which gives it the opportunity to cultivate a new generation of immigrants regardless of race or creed. Eventually, many of those HC, BC and Nova grads migrate to NYC where they suffer culture shock that St. John's grads easily navigate.


Too bad there is little factual about your speculation.

First off, it appears to me that with enrollment about 50% higher for their undergraduate population BC admits more underqualified legacy students. Their endowment is much higher than Villanova, reflective of a wealthier base than Villanova. Both schools has a much more generous donor base than st. John's, both on a % of alumni who donate and overall per diem donation.

As for the student population, both Bc and Villanova are highly selective. 15 years ago, it took about a 1300 minimum SAT to have a shot at admission to Nova. Today it's about 1400. BC is slightly higher, maybe by 30 points.

In terms of Catholic identity, our opinion is that Villanova is the more traditional Catholic school, while BC mutes its Catholic identity in deference to its non Catholic student population. At BC orientation priests dont even wear a collar.

Both schools draw large student populations from metro nyc. More internships are available to students from both schools than Philly and Boston. Like many schools both have grads who settle in NYC, but both have strong nyc are a student populations.

I don't know what comprises an iconic Catholic school campus, but both have beautiful suburban campuses in wealthy areas.

Both spawn successful grads.

Villanova definitemy does a better job in outreach to families of students, which are a large part of their donor base.

Can't really comment on Georgetown though we have friends who attended.

All three are great schools and to be critical of any if the three academically is just silly.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278631

  • otis
  • otis's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 2238
  • Karma: -63
  • Thank you received: 117
The below table discounts the talking point that StJohn’s is a leader enrolling Pell Grant eligible students.

The below linked information indicates that 29% of the StJohns students are Pell Grant eligible .... compared to Penn State (University Park) 54%, Florida International 55%, USF 52%, University of Memphis 51%, SUNY Albany 44%; UNC Charolette 43%, Ohio University 42%, UMass 40%, DePaul 37%, Stony Brook 35%, UBuffalo 34%, UC Berkeley 33%, St. John Fisher College 32%, Columbia University, UFlorida 32%, Aldelphi University 31%, Pace University 31%, University of Tennessee 30%, George Mason University 30%, University of Connecticut 30%, Seton Hall 29%. Even Syracuse University has a relatively same proportion of Pell Studdents enrolled as St. John’s University: 25% vs. 29%.

www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/na...s/economic-diversity

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278633

  • BrookJersey Redmen
  • BrookJersey Redmen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 777
  • Karma: 2
  • Thank you received: 32
Agree with Class of 72 1,000% with his comments; but must say going to high school in East Flatbush/Canarsie and living in Flatbush, back then--- Queens where St. John's was on the old Hillcrest Golf Course, it seemed like going to the 'country' compared to Schermerhorn Street downtown Brooklyn.

Anyway, not debating high level Catholic Universities---- more getting back to this Blue Blood college BB thing....

Blue Blood if meaning socially prominent, noble ....doesn't really fit any basketball-factory description. Another term of "high rank" seems to fit more aptly.

So then no doubt Villanova is a basketball blue blood and have been for 10 or so years. Their win in 1985 notwithstanding, SJU was more of a basketball blue blood back in that day. UCLA is probably the most outstanding college BB program in history, but I bet that when most people mention blue bloods, they think of Kentucky and Kansas. When St. John's was in the top 5 of all-time Wins I'd say we were in the conversation but that pretty much all ended when our current coach graduated.

I would love to get back into the upper echelon of the present Big East and sustain it and then worry about becoming a blue blood again.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278643

  • SLYFOXX1968
  • SLYFOXX1968's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 301
  • Karma: -54
  • Thank you received: 92
JSJ, how great for your Niece ! My Granddaughter took her Nova visit in February since she was waiting on Regular Decision after being Deferred in December . Through some Nova Alumni connections she got to meet Jay Wright on Campus and he gave her one of his Attitude Bracelets . She literally could have floated home from Philly after that ...She is still waiting to hear from some of her other Schools . If it were my decision , I would have sent in her deposit already to Nova .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last Edit: by SLYFOXX1968. Reason: Spelling

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278644

  • SLYFOXX1968
  • SLYFOXX1968's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 301
  • Karma: -54
  • Thank you received: 92
Classy comments from Father Hagan . Very Classy !

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278646

  • SLYFOXX1968
  • SLYFOXX1968's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 301
  • Karma: -54
  • Thank you received: 92
Absolutely correct in your comments BrookJersey . Different schools in many respects . SJU is twice the size of Villanova . And , my Granddaughter is a top student . Ranks 8 in her class of 467 in a well regarded Long Island Public High School . She targeted a lot of what one would classify as Elite schools . Notre Dame , Tulane , Duke , BC , Ga Tech , Dartmouth to name a few . And , Villanova . She got Deferred in December from all of them . Which seemingly is become common practice in these schools who get double or triple the Applications than they can accept . And , interestingly while a School like Villanova will accept about 6500 kids out of 17,000, they only expect a Class of about 2000. It’s a interesting commentary on the whole College Admittance System . And, it’s not beyond a College , any College , to manipulate Statistics to keep their various Ratios high . For example , they may defer a Student in December that they know they will definitely accept in March , just to boost Numbers . And , they all do it . Interesting .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278649

  • SLYFOXX1968
  • SLYFOXX1968's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Posts: 301
  • Karma: -54
  • Thank you received: 92
72, I am the Grandfsther ,, not the Dad . You bet I am proud of her and you have nearly described to a T her credentials . Which would likely admit her to many , not all the Elite schools she applied to . G’town is truly a great Academic School , so are Notre Dame , BC , Vanderbilt and Duke . What I did not know until she was accepted to Ga Tech is how good a School the Rambling Wreck are . They are like 34 or 36 of All Schools and the 4 th Best in Engineering . Better than ND , Duke, Va Tech , etc . They are right behind MIT, Cal Tech , Stanford . A friend of mine , a Ga Tech Guy describes MIT as the “ Ga Tech of the North East .”

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Villanova a Blue Blood 4 weeks 1 day ago #278650

  • Sju grad 13
  • Sju grad 13's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 558
  • Karma: -3
  • Thank you received: 122
You guys act like SJU is taking kids from the hood and Nova only takes from only wealthy neighborhoods. SJU has plenty of Long Island and Whitestone kids and Nova has plenty of kids from the west side of Philly.

Where SJU radically differs in comparison to Nova is how their inner schools operate. Nova students from what I hear are accepted at every school in the university. At SJU, there’s radical differences between the inner colleges. The school of law, Pharmacy, Biotechnology and Business are way way WAY different than the school of liberal arts and school of professional studies students. And I mean everything is different, the demographics ( people may not know this, but SJU Business school is 89 percent white and Asian).

Just a interesting situation all around.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: mkras99SJUFAN2espkengmanlawmanfankranmarsOhioFanotisredmannorth